No, I don't think so. You still need to program, and the languages used to program are 3GLs. There just happen to be tools that allow you to quickly create and maintain certain types of code such as the code used to build a GUI, interact with a database, etc. You still have to maintain the code that does the real work. I think you're still in a 3G environment, just with better tools to support it.
I'm also not sure that Remedy represents a 5GL as I understand it, it seems more like a 4GL. You still have to program in Remedy, you're just not typing out most of the statements like you do in other program environments - instead, you're pointing and clicking, selecting from a known subset of commands. Then, once you get beyond what that can provide, you're typing in things like keywords and functions, run process commands, etc. The approach is different (and much more limited), but it amounts to the same thing - you're designing a system with algorithms to work on the data, and you still have to do the designing and then enter that into the system. The difference in Remedy is that Remedy is intended specifically for Enterprise database applications, whereas the .NET framework and associated tools are much more generic. Lyle From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Meyer, Jennifer L Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Using FPA ( Function Point Analysis ) with Remedy ARS ** Wouldn't that define the .NET framework as a 5th generation (or higher) programming tool used to generate lower-level code? Jennifer Meyer ________________________________ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lyle Taylor Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Using FPA ( Function Point Analysis ) with Remedy ARS No, I haven't done the actual analysis, I'm just speaking from my impressions based on my experience on both sides of the coin. I would agree that if you're comparing this to C programs, there's a very wide gap, and Remedy will win. However, there are now several nice frameworks available that make building applications, including database applications, much easier and quicker, and that, I believe, narrow that gap and may even invert it in some cases, depending on what you are trying to do. For example, the .NET framework and associated tools keep getting better and can make writing applications quite quick and easy. It, too, will translate much of your design to code for you, leaving you to implement things like event handlers and your business logic, which is essentially what Remedy leaves you, too. You're also left designing your own database, for the most part, but they include tools to help with that as well. My recent experience has been that I have been able to put together usable application GUIs quicker in .NET than I have in Remedy. The database portion of that takes longer (primarily because it doesn't happen as a byproduct of creating a form). The logic portion depends on the complexity of the logic and what is being done. If you want to have an N-tier architecture, then it does get more complicated, as that is already provided for you with Remedy. Again, no hard numbers, just impressions, but I would be surprised if your numbers came out anywhere near what you got for C programs if you did it again with more modern application building frameworks and tools. I would also think that the numbers would change depending on what you're trying to implement including aspects of user interaction and logic within the application, as well as the size of the application you are developing. My personal experience has been that it has been easier for me to test and maintain complex but well written programs in C++ or .NET than it has been to do the same with things like the ITSM applications, primarily due to the way the Remedy environment was designed and the tools that I have available to me for the other environments. Then again, it may also have a bit to do with my relative levels of experience in the different domains... I don't mean to try to invalidate your points about FPA when comparing Remedy to code, I think they're valid. I just had a hard time with the 6 orders of magnitude difference. I think the results will be different depending on what you're comparing Remedy development to. Lyle _Platinum Sponsor: [email protected] ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"__Platinum Sponsor: [email protected] ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor:[email protected] ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
