Doug -- thanks, I have visions of where this feature can go -- and I think it is awesome.
For example -- I possibly could "shard off" my "customizations" and send them to BMC for support. Also -- I could "shard off my "customizations" -- .zip it -- and share with BMC community. (Stuff like re-opening a closed change (UGGGGGG)) The possibilities are great. Actually - opens a "new world" of collaboration within the BMC world. Stuff like that -- should get a new version number -- and some major drum beating by the marketing group. (because -- it is powerful -- it is differentiating -- and it is saving companies time/money/pain) So -- great work to roll-out the feature. Just was surprising that it gets slipped into the "ether" of 7.6.4 -- as I think it is worthy of standing on the tallest building and yelling "I have overlays" !!! (A little fun is always OK) -John On Mar 16, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Mueller, Doug wrote: John, 1) I don't disagree that Overlays is a significant feature. 2) I don't disagree that the version numbering scheme is not reflecting the significance of the new capability. It is indeed a major feature and capability. As for not seeing how it works until the next major app release... not really true. We have customers who are already converting their existing customizations into using overlays -- using assistance from tools like BPCU to automate most if not all of the work. So, there are customers getting value today in better understanding their environment and the level of change they have made in it. Who are able to clean things and to set up for future change. Will the big upgrade savings aspect to see that the upgrade process is cleaner and that customizations -- especially to things like layouts and such -- are handled much better need to wait until the next app release. Sure. On the other hand, it is much better that you can get the overlay feature in, and get some experience with it and be prepared in advance with some time rather than trying to get it in, learn it, trust it, AND upgrade the app all at the same time.... About the version numbering..... I am not in charge of that. I have no say in that. There are reasons around synchronizing product releases and new conventions for coordination that are simply longer than possible to type into a message without blowing out all limit restrictions of email that can be posted to ARSlist. So, we have the number we have. Still better to move forward with the feature at this time than to wait for the next release that has a "better" release number. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Sundberg Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 -- Really a note about overlays Doug, Overlays seem awesome. However -- such an improvement seems like it justifies a different version number. 7.6.4 -- suggests to the vast majority of people "a little change" as in "patch". Overlays is a huge architectural change in ARS - so much so -- that it was "shelved for later" -- as it was too big to not get correct. (My opinion -- overlays is one of the biggest changes to the core system - ever, the next biggest thing is "trim fields" -- but that was >10 years ago) (BTW - I consider mid-tier a client) To follow that. I think it should have been something like 8.0 -- which sort of warns people "to be careful". The "big thing" with overlays is -- we don't really know it works or not -- until BMC releases the "next version" of their apps. -- And then -- we all find out if the grand plan works or not. Of course -- maybe there will not be a "next version" since 7.6.4 has "Best practices" -- kinda hard to improve of "Best practices". ;) Of course -- you could do what my kids do and create "Bestest practices" -- and then "Bestester" etc... -John On Mar 10, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Mueller, Doug wrote: Tauf, First, I am not sure where the statement "introduces so much new workflow" comes from. There is NO new workflow introduced by this feature at all. If you do not modify anything, there is nothing at all present in the "overlay". If you change one definition, there is ONE definition in the overlay (and so on) No matter how carefully you document changes, no matter how particular you are about following best practices, it is difficult to have everything you have changed and everything you have added (and know the difference). It is difficult to understand that the original definition is on things you have changed. It is difficult during upgrade to preserve your changes -- especially to things that you MUST change on the definition and there is no way to have a parallel definition (like table field properties or view layouts or the like). What the overlay feature does is to simply allow you to do the following: 1) Add new items that are identified as custom items you have added. They are flagged as custom items in the displays. You can easily sort by and get a list of custom items. And it is COMPLETE. You don't have to worry if you are missing one or if you forgot about something you added. 2) Update existing items by leaving the original definition there and updating a copy of that definition with your changes. a) all the benefits of #1 are present AND your changes have the exact same name/identification as the original b) you can at any time see your version vs. the original to see exactly what has changed from out of the box c) Not have to deal with "ripple changes". By this I mean that if in the past you copied a filter to a new name (to avoid overwrite at upgrade), you had to copy any guide that included it and then any workflow that called the guide to use the new name. The fact that the items are the SAME ITEM means that there is no need to change other things. d) When an upgrade occurs, the definitions in the base layer are changed but NOTHING about the items you have overlaid (or added custom) are changed. So, your changes are not overwritten. In fact, your changes continue to be the overlay and continue to sit on top of and override the definition that was newly imported with the same name/id. e) After the upgrade, you can again compare your overlay with the new out of the box definition to see if there is anything that should change. Maybe the out of the box does the right thing now and you should remove your overlay or maybe there is an extended set of actions and you need to pick up one or more of the new actions in your overlay. The key is that it provides an automatic and inherent layer that is YOUR layer that sits over the out of the box definition and allows you to safely, clearly, and cleanly adjust or augment the defintions if needed for your environment. This is a feature that allows you to gain further and tighter control over your environment. It is something that provides you with the ability to better understand what is stock and what is custom and what is changed about the solution. It is one that preserves all changes you have made across upgrades with a layer of independence and yet links so that changes stay tied into the solution without the change you have made being updated by the upgrade itself. The feature is useful for and I would advocate its use by EVERY customer. Whether you may many customizations (not the best idea), just a few, or none at all, this feature allows you to keep control and organization of the solution and anything that you adjust about it. Now, although the feature is a powerful one for changing the rules about customization of applications, it is still the most interesting and powerful feature of the product that I DON'T WANT YOU TO USE. Customizations should still be done as little as possible and with care and forethought. If the change doesn't make better business for your organization, why make the change? Doug Mueller -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chowdhury, Tauf Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 I would be curious to understand what all of your thoughts were on the Overlay feature. It's supposed to support the best practices customization strategy for BMC. However, what I've heard is that it introduces so much new workflow (and that it is essentially a brand new feature), that it doesn't make sense if you keep your customizations to a minimum and have them well documented. Anyone else have real life experience using overlays and actually troubleshooting any issues that are related to it? Tauf Chowdhury | Forest Laboratories, Inc. Analyst, Service Management Mobile:646.483.2779 -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 Having worked for a little more than a decade with these products, I often echo similar sentiments.. It makes some of our experiences less significant although not completely obsolete. Having said that though I sometimes do appreciate some of the changes. The one change that I often found myself condemning often was the change with the development tool formally known to us as the Admin tool. I almost resisted that change until I really worked with the new tool. Having experienced some of the benefits of the new Dev Studio, I really wonder if I would be willing to switch back over to the old one. I still do not like some of the control taken away from developers, with the introduction of numerous plugins, some of which depend on external jar files etc. that cannot easily be customized. Well it can but not with a point and click like in the past. You cant help but notice though the significant change in look and feel of consoles that would just not be possible without these changes.. So I guess it has all come at some cost. Its no longer fully true that you can customize the applications in under a few weeks like Remedy used to claim in the past, which at one point was their biggest marketing propaganda. Gives us all a little extra work.. Can you complain.. :-) Joe -----Original Message----- From: Sanford, Claire Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:13 PM Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 I don't understand why BMC is making this product so much harder for people to upgrade and use. My whole user base will have to learn a whole new product this time around. The selling point was that they were used to Remedy and there wouldn't be so much pain involved. We have so many people that depend on the classic view and the ability to have a "private" tab. (((Just my opinion))) -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 12:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 Not a rumor. There is a Statement of Direction posted: 24-Sep-2010 Provides end of life information for BMC Remedy ITSM Classic views. http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/46/22/174622/174622.pdf -David J. Easter Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Philip, Saji L Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 Yes there is still a classic view. By default, the best practice view is shown. But I have heard rumors, that BMC will stop the classic view altogether. Saji -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Atul Vohra Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 12:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 Yes There is a separate form for Help Desk (do not remember the name) for classic view. Also the view (form) shown is configurable from the Application Administration Console. Atul -----Original Message----- From: "Frank Caruso" [[email protected]] Date: 03/08/2011 01:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: ITSM 7.6.4 ** Can anyone confirm for me whether there is now only one view of the Help Desk form, the Best Practice View? Older versions you cold toggle between the BPV and the Classic View. 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"Building a Better Service Experience" Recipient of: WWRUG10 Best Customer Service/Support Award WWRUG09 Innovator of the Year Award [email protected] 651.556.0930 I www.kineticdata.com _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
