C-da,
When you blame Indians in general for their faults -- why don't you follow this logic in case of Assam state. India is a country is also part of an international community and can demand that they help out in improving the coutry's lot and it is their fault that India is so backward. Indians can also blame the West .
just like Taliban did about Afghanistan's poverty and wars - about USA etc or like Africa keep crying for help from Western rcih nations and blame them for not helping out while scores die fo starvation.
Why blame India as a country in a global economy and not blame Assam as a state for its weaknesses ?
Umesh
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mayur:The intent of your mission is now abundantly clear. I did not suspect it in the beginning, thinking it was just another clueless attempt of an inexperienced but well meaning youth to attempt to change the lot of the Assamese people. Turns out it is another of those politically motivated backdoor attempts to demonstrate that Assam's condition is its own damn fault, that Assam's people are lazy, emotionally driven, ignorant of business practices ( no doubt desi-style), uneducated in ways of the modern means of getting rich quick as in gambling with other people's money by dealing in derivatives or even equities in an environment where transparency is absent, so on and so forth.Now my question is how many people do you think you have fooled, I mean other than the large contingent of Assam Netters who are already in your corner :-)?>It was Assamese people/ Assam.**** Does not really matter any more, now that your intentions are clear.But I do withdraw the 'second division' that I awarded earlier :-) on the matter of "strengths". But in case of the "weaknesses", I prefaced my dissection by declaring that it really does not matter ( see "Even if it did---").> As you are trying to>restrict the scope of the debate in stead of enlarging it,*** What was your intent? To restrict it or to expand it? To me both will beequally devoid of substance.>I don't know where were you during the turbulent days>of Assam agitation from 1979 to 1985.*** Safely ensconced in my air-conditioned office, in a developed country with a rule of law, if you must know :-). But trust me, contrary to popular wisdom to the contrary, it does not, in any way, shape, or form, dilute or discount anything I may have in analyzing these issues. My locale or condition and deliberations on Assam's condition are NOT mutually exclusive.>I am ashamed to say that in an emotional frenzy devoid
of an iota of rationality, majority of the Assamese
people supported (either vociferously or tacitly)the
manhandling of a noted Assamese intellectual in
Guwahati at the hands of the miscreants masquerading
probably as AASU members. Or they may be real AASU
also. This horrendous incident proves whether majority
of us are motivated more by ephemeral emotions or>solid reasons.*** But it does not matter where on earth I ( or anybody else for that matter) might have been when the above happened for anyone to see immediately that your assessment of the characteristic of the people of Assam as 'emotional'is absurd. It is an egregious example of how so many people from the South Asian sub-continent make sweeping judgements about entire groups of people based on isolated examples or scanty evidence.*** What is even more discouraging is your inability to reason WHY these things happen. But I will give you a break here :-): Tell us, on second thought, why and how such a sordid event could take place? And tell us also, where in India such an act could not have taken place and why?If you could persuasively address the two, I will have to re-assess my own dismissal of your argument on the matter.>But if someone deliberately behaves like an
ostritch putting its head in sands, I can't help it.*** I think you are taking on far more responsibility for the behavior and attitudes of your fellow men, than anyone could hold you responsible for. I know it is a noble gesture, but quite unnecessary. Perhaps you ought to concentrate on minding the quality your own arguments in the interest of the people of Assam. After all, if a lot of people can manage their lives better, it automatically elevates the conditions of their society.>As regards the second important point of sense of
terror or tension, it also pertains more to the state>than to the people.*** It does? My own perception was that the 'state' is an abstract notion that is meaningless when you pull the people out of it. I realize there are very many Indians whose view of the 'state' is little more than the real-estate, the 'maati'. I have seen it right here in Assam Net, when some of Assam's best have argued as if the land of Kashmir is nothing more than a piece of 'poitrik-xompotti' ( an ancestral inheritance) with the 'pota' ( title) in India's name, never mind HOW the inhabitants on the ground who call it home, feel about India's ownership pretensions about it. Very similarly for Assam too.But that is not very a thoughtful or intelligent attitude.>Keeping in view your deep rooted hatred for other Indians,-----*** That is an interesting observation. Where did you get that from,the three Rs of Assam Net ? Or was that a conclusion you derived with your own observations of my posts in Assam Net in the few weeks you have been here?Anyway, I would challenge you (and our three Rusketeers , who level that charge)to show anything that I have said, implied or otherwise demonstrated, that could back-up your charge. But the truth is that ONLY those who are frustrated in their attempts at defending their political positions from my assaults, use that charge. It is a 'kaandi-ron-jika tactic" :-), even though it is unbecoming, considering what could be expected of them. Just like the Bushies in the USA who slap that 'deep-rooted hatred of GWB' charge on their fellow citizens who dare to question or criticize their leader.Having said that, I would not hesitate to admit for a moment that I have absolutely no qualms about criticizing and denouncing Indian policies and attitudes that have harmed not only Assam's interests, but also its own people elsewhere in India. However, only the inferentially challenged or the malicious would make the jump to equate that to my"--deep rooted hatred for other Indians-->"In case you have missed it, there is a fine but critical distinction between criticism of governmental policies and hatred for the people whose govt. it is.It would behoove people like yourself to be aware of such nuances. I realize though that even highly trained desis with many degrees from elite institutions and even with years in 'phoren lands' are unable to grasp such finer differences.I just hope people of your generation can overcome such obstacles to raise your society to a higher level of sophistry.>There is no denying the fact that some of the
points raised by insurgent groups are pertinent and
valid. But does that justify the mindless violence>they are perpetrating on the innocent people ?*** You are a fair man to acknowledge the former. And I cannot challenge your aversion to the latter even if tried.Questions are:What came first? The insurgents, or those 'pertinent points" Were those 'pertinent' points raised ONLY by the insurgent groups? What were the responses to those 'pertinent' issues from the powers that be? Were those addressed, but still them 'insurgents' decided to go get killed by an overwhelmingly more powerful force by taking to arms? I would like to hear from you on these. More so because I know you are an intelligent and articulate young man. If you could not answer that, or do not want to answer that, I don't know who we could count on ?>But the most unfortunate aspect is that a section of the so called>intelligentsia see terror only in respect of army or police and not for the >ultras.*** Again same question: What came first? Are you aware of the events that preceded the birth of the insurgency? If you are, are you deliberately avoiding it? If you are, you are being dishonest. You should know that would never persuade anyone willing to exercise their intellects.Secondly, do you think or believe that the 'terror' of the police and the armed forces are either false or exaggerated or inconsequential or out of bounds in the discussions? If these 'so-called intelligentsia'( obviously they are spurious to you) did not raise them, who would? The true intelligentsia, the just, fair and even-handed ones like yourself :-)? A word of advice here: when you resort to this kind of spin,playing with words, you will lose whatever credibility you might have come with. So, if I were you, I would respect the intelligence of the people here. I know there are those who are on your side. But you don't need to preach to the choir. You ought to be making an effort to bring new ideas, creative ways to solve the problems Assam faces. And that, unfortunately, is not compatible with attempting to preserve Assam as a colony for India, never mind that YOU or others in your shoes, made it, even under those same conditions. Exceptions don't make the rule in this case.>Nobody bothers now about the innocent victims and their relatives of>Dhemaji blast of 15 August 2004.*** Nobody does? Is that a fact, or did you make that up to advance your political agenda? Or are you being careless with words?And by the same taken how many from the ranks of the loyal establishment, like yourself for example, care about the families of the ten thousand plus Assamese killed by the Indian army, CRPF, Assam police and state sponsored assassins?Do they count? Or should they be swepyt under the rug, unceremoniously, with labels, words and phrases like 'insurgent', 'suspected ULFA', 'death in custody', 'encounter death' -- ad nauseum?If you cannot differentiate then your attempts here would carry little credibility. You would be yet another hack, attempting to insult the intelligence of a lot of people.> It may make some difference to you or me who are safely sitting at a
>distance and trying to popularise their own poits of>views. One who wears the shoe knows where it pinches.**** It requires credibility to preach, as long as there is more to the congregation than the choir. And cliche's and truisms rarely prove a point, when context is discarded.>Let us not pretend that >we know better.*** I think you need to speak for yourself here. I do know better and thus not a part of your WE :-).
It's good that you have opened the chapter. You seem
to have missed or deliberately overlooked the headingbefore the strengths. It was Assamese people/ Assam.
Some strengths, as the heading more than adequatelysignifies, pertain to our state. As you are trying torestrict the scope of the debate in stead of enlargingit, it did not surprise me at all that you missed it.
Any way, thanks for giving 2nd division to me.I don't know where were you during the turbulent daysof Assam agitation from 1979 to 1985. As an Assamese,I am ashamed to say that in an emotional frenzy devoid
of an iota of rationality, majority of the Assamese
people supported (either vociferously or tacitly)the
manhandling of a noted Assamese intellectual in
Guwahati at the hands of the miscreants masquerading
probably as AASU members. Or they may be real AASU
also. This horrendous incident proves whether majority
of us are motivated more by ephemeral emotions orsolid reasons.It is absolutely normal to have
emotions, but to be solely guided by emotions can have
disastrous ramifications as we have seen in case ofAssam. But if someone deliberately behaves like an
ostritch putting its head in sands, I can't help it.
As regards the second important point of sense of
terror or tension, it also pertains more to the statethan to the people. Keeping in view your deep rootedhatred for other Indians, I am accepting for the time
being that whatever is happening in Assam is the
effect of something which is not under theircontrol.There is no denying the fact that some of the
points raised by insurgent groups are pertinent and
valid. But does that justify the mindless violencethey are perpetrating on the innocent people ? Any
right thinking citizen should condemn their activitiesin the strongest possible terms. But the most
unfortunate aspect is that a section of the so called
intelligentsia see terror only in respect of army orpolice and not for the ultras. Their obvious objective
is to lionise a few leaders and romanticise their
activities. But behind this objective, lies their main
objective of satisfying their own vested interests.
Ram was right in his opinion that the attention
received by the ultras is directly proportional to thedegree of violence they can indulge in. Nobody bothers
now about the innocent victims and their relatives ofDhemaji blast of 15 August 2004.Tell me one goodeffect of rise of insurgency in the state. This
dangerous tendency is observed with many of the so
called human rights organisations also. Let us not try
to draw a line between human rights violations at the
hands of the state and the insurgents. For the victim,does it make any difference ? It may make some
difference to you or me who are safely sitting at a
distance and trying to popularise their own poits of
views. One who wears the shoe knows where it pinches.Let us not pretend that we know better.Mahanta da, intellectual arrogance very often deprives
a person of courage and ability to accept his ownmistakes.His main intention becomes only to defend his
views, come what may.Let us not fall in that category.By no stretch of imagination, I support the IndianState in respect of its treatment to North East, but I
fail to understand your animosity towards commonIndian people. Is it not an accident that we were bornon that side ?
Looking forward to your response.
bye for the time being.
Mayur
Chandigarh
--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mayur:
>
> I was hoping that I did not have to open this
> chapter. I avoided
> getting into it it in my first response. But since
> you are not
> convinced, I am forced into it :-).
>
> First off, congratulations on your perceptiveness in
> starting off
> with all those nice qualities of the Assamese
> People, the STRENGTHS
> as you characterize them.
> Always a good idea to preface bad news with good,
> however tenuous.
> Trouble is, if they are not very convincing, the
> whole show falls
> apart:
>
> Of the ten (good round number) "Strengths of the
> Assamese People" below,
> 2,5,6,8 and 9 have nothing to do with the qualities
> of the Assamese
> people at all. You are scoring 50% if it were to be
> an essay writing
> exercise in grade school, that is a barely a second
> div., if that
> high :-).
>
> Now let us examine the 'weaknesses':
>
> Of the 18 at least 7 have nothing to do with the
> qualities of the
> Assamese people. But even if they did let us see
> what these mean, and
> how you might use these to weigh the ethnic
> qualities of the people.
> I will just take one or two as examples. Hopefully
> you will get the
> idea.
>
>
> > >2. Emotions getting precedence over logic in the
> minds
> >of the people
>
>
> **** How would you place yourself in this
> characteristic that you see
> as a predominant in the Assamese people? Do you
> consider yourself
> more rational/logical than emotional? If not, then
> you are an
> EXCEPTION, one who is above the rest. I have no
> problem believing
> that. But I want to hear it from YOU.
>
> And how would you rate all the Assamese people you
> know well enough
> to judge them--family members, close friends,
> teachers, relatives,
> servants etc. etc? You must not use examples of> newspaper accounts,
> or anecdotes, or hearsay etc. What percentage of
> them will you
> consider emotionally driven as opposed to being
> rational/logical? It
> is important here that you consider the person's
> entire record you
> are aware of, not merely some incident or episode,
> however
> significant that might be. Because we do not judge
> people on account
> of one or a few incidents, but on the entirety of
> their personnae.
>
> How would you rate the various people who have
> posted in Assam Net
> since you joined it? Feel free to name them if you
> wish. That will be
> helpful in judging your own evaluating skills :-).
>
> Based upon the above, assuming these groups of
> people above are a
> fair representation of the entirety of kharkhowadom,
> how does your
> assessment stand?
>
>
> > >7. All pervasive feeling of tension and terror
> in
> >>different parts of the state
>
>
>
> **** Do you consider this a characteristic of the
> Assamese people? If
> you do why? Is it a genetic or hereditary condition?
> Or is it a
> response to certain conditions prevailing in
> society?
>
> And if it is the latter, if it is an EFFECT, not a
> CAUSE, as Mukul
> Mahanta pointed out in the very similar item #6,
> what do you think
> are the CAUSES? Are they genetic Assamese
> abnormalities that caused
> it? Or are they caused by societal factors under
> their CONTROL? Or
> are they caused by forces outside their control?
>
> Whatever your assessment, will you please outline
> and explain them as
> you see them?
>
> And based on the above how would you assess your
> judgement that it is
> a WEAKNESS of the Assamese people?
>
>
>
> I hope by now you have caught my drift and further
> dissecting would
> not be necessary :-).
>
> Take care,
>
> cm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10:17 AM -0700 9/13/05, mayur bora wrote:
> >Dear Friends,
> >
> >I am new to the mailing list of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Some of the debates among the netizens on issues
> >concerning Assam are really interesting. I am sure
> we
> >would be able to provide a new perspective on some
> >issues in respect of Assam with the help of our> >collective wisdom. One of the most important issues
> >crossing my mind is to find out the relative
> strengths
> >and weaknesses of Assamese people in relation to
> other
> >people of India. I am trying to list below the
> >strengths and weaknesses of Assamese people and
> >solicit your opinion on that. I am using the word
> >Assanese in a broad sense encompassing all those
> >people whose mother tongue may not be Assamese, but
> >they have some concern for the state. Moreover the
> >traits indicated below are general in nature and
> >exceptions are not ruled out. The objective of this
> >exercise is to find out whether our weaknesses
> >outweigh the strengths resulting in the current
> >condition of the state vis a vis other states of
> the
> >country.
> >
> >Strength of Assamese People / Assam
> >
> >1. Diverse and rich literary and cultural
> traditions
> >
> >2. Favourable climatic condition
> >
> >3. Healthy and relatively spice less cuisine
> >
> >4. Great hospitality and relative simplicity of
> people
> >
> >5. Fertile land
> >
> >6. Rich flora and fauna
> >
> >8. Major producer of tea and oil
> >
> >9. Tremendous tourism potential
> >
> >10. Absence of dowry
> >
> >Weaknesses
> >
> >1. Alienation of tribal people from the mainstream
> due
> >to the cavalier attitude shown by caste Hindu
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
[email protected]
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
_______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
