Hi Mayur:
>I am sure you can not be
serious when you attribute a politically motivated
>backdoor campaign behind my purely academic exerise.
*** First off, you must be joking about the 'academic' exercise
here.
You cite an incident of a 'noted intellectual' manhandled by a
mob to assert the entire Oxomiya Jaati's 'intellectual immaturity', of
being 'emotional' instead of being 'logical', because the mob did not
oppose it.
It is very clear that some fundamental analytical/inferential
skills are missing here to conduct even an ordinary 'xaak-khowa',
'bhaat-khowa' discussion, 'juhalor-mel' style, far less an academic
exercise.
While I might have given you the benefit of a doubt, all your
political sloganeering focusing on the insurgency in Assam leaves
little doubt as to what your real intention here is, and I stand by my
previous characterization of it, your protestations of 'academic'
exercises not-withstanding.
*** However, I would like to make it clear here, that a political
discussion or debate is not out-of-bounds here. That is what we engage
in most of the time. But those of us who do, most of us anyway, do not
try to present those as some 'academic' exercise or package it as some
other thing. We know better than to
do that. It requires some courage of conviction, but most people
do have enough of it to present them forthrightly. Had you approached
it in that manner, you would have no trouble , except that what Ram
cautioned you about, that earful, might have come earlier, without all
the preliminary niceties.
>Similar kind of event elsewhere would not have
generated same degree of approval from the people at
large. Here also, the difference will be in degrees.
But you don't believe in subjetive benhmark. That of
>course is not a common problem.
*** Your methodology and benchmark above is very
interesting.
" Similar kind of event elsewhere would not have
>generated same degree of approval from the people at
large"
Is this something you have learned from other such academic
investigations, or did you just make it up as a convenient standard?
Think about it a little more and see if you can justify the substance
of your assumption. It is critical you do, because your credibility
is tottering dangerously at the edge of a precipice.
>The way you address those Punjabis and Haryanvis
>signifies your deep rooted hatred for them.
*** I had no reason to think, thus far, that you don't read and
comprehend well.
But you make me wonder now. I wrote:
"If I used your method to judge the people of
Haryana, considering
the 1984 Sikh pogroms or last month's incineration of sixty 'dalit'
the 1984 Sikh pogroms or last month's incineration of sixty 'dalit'
houses; I would call them nothing less than genocidal
maniacs" and I went on ask " Would it be
correct?" to do so, that is.
And you translated that to proof of your determination
above. If I were to be a lawyer, and were to be arguing a case in
a court of law, I might have said at this point: "I rest my case
your honor". Because, you proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, that
your analytical and inferential skills are , well, how to put it
nicely--how about 'work in progress'?
>I am ruthlessly forthright in this view and I want the
>same from you. No beating around the bush please.
*** Aren't we we being a bit redundant here ?
> Let
the inhabitants of Assam decide by plebiscite whether
they endorse the main demand of the ultras. For your
benefit, if you want, let the referendum be restricted
>only to Assamese speakers. Do you have the courage to hear
the verdict from the >people ?
*** You know Mayur, just when I was about to give up on you, you
come up with a fine idea. In fact I argued, right here in assam-net, a
number of times, in favor of this process. What could be more
befitting for the second most populous country in the world, devoted
to democracy ( albeit desi-demokrasy) than to put an
end to all the speculations, spin and propaganda with a 'free
and fair' election that India excels in ( never mind the BBC poll of
yesterday as reported by ToI ) ? If I remember correctly, many
political scientists favor it too, not to mention ULFA itself. But I
tell you what, many of my net-opponents come up with all kinds of
convoluted arguments against such an exercise. And the govt. fed
newspaper editors get very vocal against it. Why do you think
they are so afraid of it?
No, no--let the non-Assamese speakers vote too, even though
inclusion of the Hindi speakers would be a pushing it a bit too far. I
don't know how the people of Assam feels about it, but I am cool with
it.
Thanks for giving me an opening here to demonstrate my 'courage'.
I am with you all the way. Will you join me in attempting to sell the
idea to our opposing friends here? Let me do the talking though.
You just stand by me, and applaud at opportune moments. Our friends
here are allergic to those fancy words and missed metaphors. Even
though some of them don't like my ideas, they are OK with my
plain-speaking, most of the time anyway.
>There is no point on harping what came first, once I
have accepted that step motherly treatment led to
>widespread and genuine resentment against Delhi.
*** Let us not go too far on this step-motherly limb Mayur. We
have to be extremely careful here. See, this 'mai-baap' concept
of Delhi is fraught with deadly consequences. That is where the
real problem lies.
Just imagine a scenario where Bharat Maiya sheds her
'step-motherly attitude' and showers Assam with tons of money
tomorrow. Literally tons. What would it do for Assam you think? Who do
you think will get rich, go to Dilli, and start a campaign in Assam
Net to paint all those who did not get any as the lazy bums,
uneducated in ways of making easy money, irrational and emotionally
immature, deserving of what they did not get?
See what I mean ?
Enough for today. More later.
Take care.
cm :-)
At 2:01 AM -0700 9/19/05, mayur bora wrote:
Respected Mahanta da
Childlike simplicity always fascinates me. But I am
never fascinated by childish tantrums that too in the
midst of a serious debate. I am sure you can not be
serious when you attribute a politically motivated
backdoor campaign behind my purely academic exerise. I
am not trying to fool anyone. But the interesting
question is how long you are going to fool yourself ?
Because I am of the opinion that no one can fool
anyone for all time to come. But one's misplaced sense
of vanity and superiority facilitates fooling of one's
internel self perpetually.
I don't want to prolong the debate ON THIS POINT ONLY
by citing instances of our emotional immaturity.
Because if that horrible incident failed to convince
you, then no other inident will. Because one an wake
up a person who is sleeping. You can not wake up a
person who is pretending to be asleep. NUDHU GAA
DHUALI, NAKHAU BHAT KHUALI, NIGILU KI KORO KOR. I am
sure you have heard this phokora jujona before.
Similar kind of event elsewhere would not have
generated same degree of approval from the people at
large. Here also, the difference will be in degrees.
But you don't believe in subjetive benhmark. That of
course is not a common problem.
The way you address those Punjabis and Haryanvis
signifies your deep rooted hatred for them. If you
want proof, you refer to the last para of your other
mail where you have referred to those people as
genocidal maniacs. It is very amusing to have a debate
with you. You make the task of the opponent very easy
by giving proof of your own contradictions very
prominently.
I am ruthlessly forthright in this view and I want the
same from you. No beating around the bush please. Let
the inhabitants of Assam decide by plebiscite whether
they endorse the main demand of the ultras. For your
benefit, if you want, let the referendum be restricted
only to Assamese speakers. Do you have the courage to
hear the verdict from the people ?
There is no point on harping what came first, once I
have accepted that step motherly treatment led to
widespread and genuine resentment against Delhi. Many
points raised by the group are genuine problems
plaguing the state. But you must acknowledge the fact
they themselves have become a big problem for Assam
now due to their mindless violent activities. I wish
Parag da were alive today. He was the only person who
never hesitated to call a spade a spade in respect of
ULFA. He always criticised their overdependence on
money and arms and gradual distancing from the people
for whom they claim to be fighting. Others are simply
guided by the flow of the wind. Today they are in this
camp, next day they are somewhere else. They should
remember one thing that THEIR ATTEMPT TO OBLITERATE
CLARITY WITH THE HELP OF CASUISTRY will not succeed
in the long run. People want negotiation because they
are just fed up with the happenings of last 10/15
years. For general people, the issues raised by the
ultras have already taken the back seat.
If you believe that Assam is a colony of India, you
tell me how do you plan to prepare the blueprint for a
new Assam ? What will be the position of the state
vis a vis other neighbouring countries ? Till the time
I am convinced by someone, I have no hesitation in
saying that we are better off inside India than
outside it. You convince me; I have the courage and
sports man spirit to accept my mistakes. But please
don't beat around the bush. Be clear and cogent in
your arguments. While levelling the charge of spinning
with words, I request you to go through your writing
before posting it on net. Kindly practise what you
preach.
I have equal sympathy for the victims of both types of
violence. I don't make any distinction by observing at
whose hands they have suffered. You seem to be doing
so.
Last but not the least, I am not here to insult the
intelligence of anyone; I want our collective
intelligence to be utilised for the betterment of the
people or the state. If you know better, either you
share with us or don't say you know more. You may be
knowing more. I don't deny that. But I have serious
doubts whether you will utilise your knowledge in a
balanced way or just to justify your point of view
which does not seem to have many takers.
I hope I have answered a few question of yours.
As usual, looking forward to further comments from
your side.
Regards
Mayur
Chandigarh
--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Mayur:
>
> The intent of your mission is now abundantly clear.
> I did not suspect
> it in the beginning, thinking it was just another
> clueless attempt of
> an inexperienced but well meaning youth to attempt
> to change the lot
> of the Assamese people. Turns out it is another of
> those politically
> motivated backdoor attempts to demonstrate that
> Assam's condition is
> its own damn fault, that Assam's people are lazy,
> emotionally driven,
> ignorant of business practices ( no doubt
> desi-style), uneducated in
> ways of the modern means of getting rich quick as in
> gambling with
> other people's money by dealing in derivatives or
> even equities in an
> environment where transparency is absent, so on and
> so forth.
>
> Now my question is how many people do you think you
> have fooled, I
> mean other than the large contingent of Assam
> Netters who are already
> in your corner :-)?
>
> >It was Assamese people/ Assam.
>
> **** Does not really matter any more, now that your
> intentions are clear.
> But I do withdraw the 'second division' that I
> awarded earlier :-) on
> the matter of "strengths". But in case of the
> "weaknesses", I
> prefaced my dissection by declaring that it really
> does not matter (
> see "Even if it did---").
>
>
> > > As you are trying to
> >restrict the scope of the debate in stead of
> enlarging it,
>
> *** What was your intent? To restrict it or to
> expand it? To me both will be
> equally devoid of substance.
>
> > >I don't know where were you during the turbulent
> days
> >of Assam agitation from 1979 to 1985.
>
> *** Safely ensconced in my air-conditioned office,
> in a developed
> country with a rule of law, if you must know :-).
> But trust me,
> contrary to popular wisdom to the contrary, it does
> not, in any way,
> shape, or form, dilute or discount anything I may
> have in analyzing
> these issues. My locale or condition and
> deliberations on Assam's
> condition are NOT mutually exclusive.
>
>
> > >I am ashamed to say that in an emotional frenzy
> devoid
> >of an iota of rationality, majority of the Assamese
> >people supported (either vociferously or
> tacitly)the
> >manhandling of a noted Assamese intellectual in
> >Guwahati at the hands of the miscreants
> masquerading
> >probably as AASU members. Or they may be real AASU
> >also. This horrendous incident proves whether
> majority
> >of us are motivated more by ephemeral emotions or
> >solid reasons.
>
> *** But it does not matter where on earth I ( or
> anybody else for
> that matter) might have been when the above happened
> for anyone to
> see immediately that your assessment of the
> characteristic of the
> people of Assam as 'emotional'is absurd. It is an
> egregious example
> of how so many people from the South Asian
> sub-continent make
> sweeping judgements about entire groups of people
> based on isolated
> examples or scanty evidence.
>
> *** What is even more discouraging is your inability
> to reason WHY
> these things happen. But I will give you a break
> here :-): Tell us,
> on second thought, why and how such a sordid event
> could take place?
> And tell us also, where in India such an act could
> not have taken
> place and why?
>
> If you could persuasively address the two, I will
> have to re-assess
> my own dismissal of your argument on the matter.
>
> > >But if someone deliberately behaves like an
> >ostritch putting its head in sands, I can't help
> it.
>
>
> *** I think you are taking on far more
> responsibility for the
> behavior and attitudes of your fellow men, than
> anyone could hold you
> responsible for. I know it is a noble gesture, but
> quite unnecessary.
> Perhaps you ought to concentrate on minding the
> quality your own
> arguments in the interest of the people of Assam.
> After all, if a lot
> of people can manage their lives better, it
> automatically elevates
> the conditions of their society.
>
>
> > >As regards the second important point of sense
> of
> >terror or tension, it also pertains more to the
> state
> >than to the people.
>
> *** It does? My own perception was that the 'state'
> is an abstract
> notion that is meaningless when you pull the people
> out of it. I
> realize there are very many Indians whose view of
> the 'state' is
> little more than the real-estate, the 'maati'. I
> have seen it right
> here in Assam Net, when some of Assam's best have
> argued as if the
> land of Kashmir is nothing more than a piece of
> 'poitrik-xompotti' (
> an ancestral inheritance) with the 'pota' ( title)
> in India's name,
> never mind HOW the inhabitants on the ground who
> call it home, feel
> about India's ownership pretensions about it. Very
> similarly for
> Assam too.
>
> But that is not very a thoughtful or intelligent
> attitude.
>
>
> >Keeping in view your deep rooted hatred for other
> Indians,-----
>
> *** That is an interesting observation. Where did
> you get that
> from,the three Rs of Assam Net ? Or was that a
> conclusion you derived
> with your own observations of my posts in Assam Net
> in the few weeks
> you have been here?
>
> Anyway, I would challenge you (and our three
> Rusketeers , who level
> that charge)
> to show anything that I have said, implied or
> otherwise demonstrated,
> that could back-up your charge. But the truth is
> that ONLY those who
> are frustrated in their attempts at defending their
> political
> positions from my assaults, use that charge. It is a
> 'kaandi-ron-jika
> tactic" :-), even though it is unbecoming,
> considering what could
> be expected of them. Just like the Bushies in the
> USA who slap that
> 'deep-rooted hatred of GWB' charge on their fellow
> citizens who dare
> to question or criticize their leader.
>
> Having said that, I would not hesitate to admit for
> a moment that I
> have absolutely no qualms about criticizing and
> denouncing Indian
> policies and attitudes that have harmed not only
> Assam's interests,
> but also its own people elsewhere in India. However,
> only the
> inferentially challenged or the malicious would make
> the jump to
> equate that to my"--deep rooted hatred for other
> Indians-->"
>
=== message truncated ===
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