What do you think? Why don't you tell us where the fallacy is, as YOU see it :-).
On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > There is a fallacy in separating the system from the people completely. It is > after all the people who make and install the system > (political/administrative in this case). The system did not suddenly arrive > from outer space.ALSO The same very people use or abuse the system. > > You indicated that the British system works. If I am not mistaken, the Indian > system takes after the British one. It almost looks like a copy job - with > the president as a figure head, Rajya Sabha patterned after the House of > Lords, the IAS like the BCS, a governor in every state as the representative > from Delhi, similar laws and regulations etc. etc. Why doesn't the Indian > system work? Is it possible that a system that works in Brtain (I am not > saying it does) stops working in India because it is abused by the people? > > =============================================================== > > > From: Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics > To: "Alpana B. Sarangapani " <absarangap...@hotmail.com> > Cc: "assam@assamnet.org " <assam@assamnet.org> > Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 12:04 PM > > > Riiiight ! > > So, I guess there is no escape from it, is there :-)? > > The fallacy here Alpana is that you are so stuck on the good people, bad > people mantra, you cannot > divorce yourself from the notion that a few or perhaps a lot good folks is > all you need for salvation. > > The fact is that people are mostly the same, all over. Generally, they are > mostly good. But the rigors > of survival, selfish instincts, absence of societal and personal ethics and > other factors push them > to temptation. If such temptation is not discouraged by say: > Ethical qualms > Laws of the land and institutions of state that will punish bad behavior > and support good behavior > then the slide down the path of bad behavior becomes perpetuated, like in > today's India. > > Americans or the British or the Germans or the French or the Norwegians or > the Chinese or the Russians--they all > are good and bad. But those societies that have succeeded in fostering > ethical behavior in conjunction with > an effective system of governance with trustworthy and functioning > institutions, have by and large been > able to prevent such wholesale descent into a corrupt state. > > So, it is NOT the Kharkhowas' innate badness that has caused its descent into > what it is mired in now, It is India's > make-believe democrasy and its dysfunctional state institutions, compounded > by an absence of knowledge > about what they ought to be, that is at the root of its profound malaise. > > Therefore, even if you get a half dozen saints imported from far off, saintly > lands to run Assam, never mind AGP+BJP, vs Kongress > or Akhil + Anna or even ULFA, will make any difference, UNLESS it is coupled > with a complete overhaul of its failed governmental > system. That simple. > > > On Apr 22, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: > >> But the system is made of the (local) people only. >> >> I might be acting like - 'gorur aagot tukari baai, mur jukaari ghah khai' to >> your argument of just blaming the system, and not taking responsibility of >> one's own greedy behavior, but I know for sure that It is not written in >> Indian book of law that taking bribe is mandatory. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> >> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:02:58 >> To: <assam@assamnet.org> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >> >> Allow me to butt in here A. >> >> No one is questioning the need for personal integrity. Your Bor-deuta is a >> good example. Question you should be asking >> is why HE had to QUIT? Where is the institutional support system that should >> reward good behavior and punish >> bad? It is THIS absence that breeds more and more behavior. There is no >> DETERRENCE. >> >> >>> And about the 'I' and 'you', even if it is not specifically written, there >>> still might be a tendency to preach, like you and I and many of us here and >>> elsewhere do >> >> *** As long as such preaching does not go unchallenged, it is for the good. >> It makes people pause, think, look deeper into issues, instead of >> merely jumping onto this bandwagon or that, seeking easy answers and simple >> fixes. But if we are to dismiss or devalue Santanu's analysis >> as yet another set of preachings or attempts at self-aggrandisement, then we >> would be missing the point. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >>> Good to hear from you, Santanu. Don't see you much these days. >>> >>> >>> >>> While i agree with you in principle that if the system of governance is >>> very good, most things work out fine, i think there are other issues as >>> well. >>> >>> I feel that for a country to function well, it has to have good governance, >>> regulations, rules on one side and a population that has principles, not >>> susceptible to corruption, and takes active and healthy interest in the >>> general well being of the country. >>> >>> And about the 'I' and 'you', even if it is not specifically written, there >>> still might be a tendency to preach, like you and I and many of us here and >>> elsewhere do. One does not necessarily need to go to Lanka to become Rabon, >>> you can find Rabon all over the place. >>> >>> Do people have to compromise on principles and morality because the system >>> is so corrupt and put the blame on the system and succumb to taking bribes >>> and what not? If the answer is yes, what does that tell us about our >>> society? >>> >>> >>> On a side note, my Bor-Deuta, as a young man, worked as a Supply Inspector >>> for a couple of months and quit the job in disgust, because of large scale >>> bribery. He didn't die a materially rich man, but he kept his principles >>> and morality very high up thoughout his career and life. In those days, he >>> was not the only one, of course, to do that. >>> >>> BTW, I understand how the proverb goes. But it is unfortunate that people >>> forget that Ravan had high principles. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: s...@mail.smu.edu >>>> To: assam@assamnet.org >>>> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:21:59 +0000 >>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >>>> >>>> Nice piece. It is always so easy to view the problem of corruption & >>>> related ills as one of personal morality; that it happens because the >>>> people who have discretionary power, particularly politicians, are >>>> fundamentally "bad" people. If they are replaced by "good" people, the >>>> outcome will be fundamentally different. It is this view that gets the >>>> urban middle class so excited about the Hazare-like premises. >>>> >>>> I have tried to understand why this seems to be a collective social view, >>>> though individually almost all of us have the basic intelligence to >>>> understand the time immemorial adage that "one who goes to Lanka, shall >>>> become a Ravan". Quite apart from the fact that reforming Lanka is nowhere >>>> as entertaining or appealing as burning Ravan, it reflects a fundamental >>>> desire in us to differentiate ourselves - "they " are the bad guys so they >>>> bring misery, "I" am good, if "I" were there, "I" would perform >>>> differently; "I" or someone like "I" can do it. By saying this, "I" exult >>>> my moral superiority. It is so easy to sell this creed to "I". "You?", >>>> well I am not so sure about "you" :-). >>>> >>>> Santanu. >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] on behalf of >>>> Altaf Mazid [altafma...@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:31 AM >>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world >>>> Subject: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >>>> >>>> The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >>>> >>>> By Amit Varma >>>> >>>> http://in.news.yahoo.com/blogs/opinions/rorschach-effect-indian-politics-053923332.html >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> assam mailing list >>>> assam@assamnet.org >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> assam mailing list >>>> assam@assamnet.org >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam@assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
