I said, "There is a fallacy in separating the system from the people completely." In stead of repeating my last email, I'll just say that the two are connected, the system having been devised by the people. When there is a need to change the system because it does not function due to generation gap, passage of time, or abuse, it's the people who use the system who will change the system. Yes, a section of the people will need to inspire and instigate the rest and India is going through that phase now.
From: Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics What do you think? Why don't you tell us where the fallacy is, as YOU see it :-). On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > There is a fallacy in separating the system from the people completely. It is > after all the people who make and install the system > (political/administrative in this case). The system did not suddenly arrive > from outer space.ALSO The same very people use or abuse the system. > > You indicated that the British system works. If I am not mistaken, the Indian > system takes after the British one. It almost looks like a copy job - with > the president as a figure head, Rajya Sabha patterned after the House of > Lords, the IAS like the BCS, a governor in every state as the representative > from Delhi, similar laws and regulations etc. etc. Why doesn't the Indian > system work? Is it possible that a system that works in Brtain (I am not > saying it does) stops working in India because it is abused by the people? > > =============================================================== > > > From: Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics > To: "Alpana B. Sarangapani " <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected] " <[email protected]> > Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 12:04 PM > > > Riiiight ! > > So, I guess there is no escape from it, is there :-)? > > The fallacy here Alpana is that you are so stuck on the good people, bad > people mantra, you cannot > divorce yourself from the notion that a few or perhaps a lot good folks is > all you need for salvation. > > The fact is that people are mostly the same, all over. Generally, they are > mostly good. But the rigors > of survival, selfish instincts, absence of societal and personal ethics and > other factors push them > to temptation. If such temptation is not discouraged by say: > Ethical qualms > Laws of the land and institutions of state that will punish bad behavior >and support good behavior > then the slide down the path of bad behavior becomes perpetuated, like in > today's India. > > Americans or the British or the Germans or the French or the Norwegians or > the Chinese or the Russians--they all > are good and bad. But those societies that have succeeded in fostering > ethical behavior in conjunction with > an effective system of governance with trustworthy and functioning > institutions, have by and large been > able to prevent such wholesale descent into a corrupt state. > > So, it is NOT the Kharkhowas' innate badness that has caused its descent into > what it is mired in now, It is India's > make-believe democrasy and its dysfunctional state institutions, compounded > by an absence of knowledge > about what they ought to be, that is at the root of its profound malaise. > > Therefore, even if you get a half dozen saints imported from far off, saintly > lands to run Assam, never mind AGP+BJP, vs Kongress > or Akhil + Anna or even ULFA, will make any difference, UNLESS it is coupled > with a complete overhaul of its failed governmental > system. That simple. > > > On Apr 22, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: > >> But the system is made of the (local) people only. >> >> I might be acting like - 'gorur aagot tukari baai, mur jukaari ghah khai' to >> your argument of just blaming the system, and not taking responsibility of >> one's own greedy behavior, but I know for sure that It is not written in >> Indian book of law that taking bribe is mandatory. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> >> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:02:58 >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >> >> Allow me to butt in here A. >> >> No one is questioning the need for personal integrity. Your Bor-deuta is a >> good example. Question you should be asking >> is why HE had to QUIT? Where is the institutional support system that should >> reward good behavior and punish >> bad? It is THIS absence that breeds more and more behavior. There is no >>DETERRENCE. >> >> >>> And about the 'I' and 'you', even if it is not specifically written, there >>> still might be a tendency to preach, like you and I and many of us here and >>> elsewhere do >> >> *** As long as such preaching does not go unchallenged, it is for the good. >> It makes people pause, think, look deeper into issues, instead of >> merely jumping onto this bandwagon or that, seeking easy answers and simple >> fixes. But if we are to dismiss or devalue Santanu's analysis >> as yet another set of preachings or attempts at self-aggrandisement, then we >> would be missing the point. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >>> Good to hear from you, Santanu. Don't see you much these days. >>> >>> >>> >>> While i agree with you in principle that if the system of governance is >>> very good, most things work out fine, i think there are other issues as >>> well. >>> >>> I feel that for a country to function well, it has to have good governance, >>> regulations, rules on one side and a population that has principles, not >>> susceptible to corruption, and takes active and healthy interest in the >>> general well being of the country. >>> >>> And about the 'I' and 'you', even if it is not specifically written, there >>> still might be a tendency to preach, like you and I and many of us here and >>> elsewhere do. One does not necessarily need to go to Lanka to become Rabon, >>> you can find Rabon all over the place. >>> >>> Do people have to compromise on principles and morality because the system >>> is so corrupt and put the blame on the system and succumb to taking bribes >>> and what not? If the answer is yes, what does that tell us about our >>> society? >>> >>> >>> On a side note, my Bor-Deuta, as a young man, worked as a Supply Inspector >>> for a couple of months and quit the job in disgust, because of large scale >>> bribery. He didn't die a materially rich man, but he kept his principles >>> and morality very high up thoughout his career and life. In those days, he >>> was not the only one, of course, to do that. >>> >>> BTW, I understand how the proverb goes. But it is unfortunate that people >>> forget that Ravan had high principles. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:21:59 +0000 >>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >>>> >>>> Nice piece. It is always so easy to view the problem of corruption & >>>> related ills as one of personal morality; that it happens because the >>>> people who have discretionary power, particularly politicians, are >>>> fundamentally "bad" people. If they are replaced by "good" people, the >>>> outcome will be fundamentally different. It is this view that gets the >>>> urban middle class so excited about the Hazare-like premises. >>>> >>>> I have tried to understand why this seems to be a collective social view, >>>> though individually almost all of us have the basic intelligence to >>>> understand the time immemorial adage that "one who goes to Lanka, shall >>>> become a Ravan". Quite apart from the fact that reforming Lanka is nowhere >>>> as entertaining or appealing as burning Ravan, it reflects a fundamental >>>> desire in us to differentiate ourselves - "they " are the bad guys so they >>>> bring misery, "I" am good, if "I" were there, "I" would perform >>>> differently; "I" or someone like "I" can do it. By saying this, "I" exult >>>> my moral superiority. It is so easy to sell this creed to "I". "You?", >>>> well I am not so sure about "you" :-). >>>> >>>> Santanu. >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of >>>> Altaf Mazid [[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:31 AM >>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world >>>> Subject: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >>>> >>>> The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics >>>> >>>> By Amit Varma >>>> >>>> http://in.news.yahoo.com/blogs/opinions/rorschach-effect-indian-politics-053923332.html >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> assam mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> assam mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> assam mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> assam mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
