dyohn wrote: > In the wise words of Henry Kloss, "Everything that is audible is > measurable, but not everything that is measurable is audible."
I read this and thought "Didn't I post something similar a while back?" And yes I did. My apologies to Mr. Kloss but I was unaware that I was paraphrasing his original statement. ralphpnj wrote: > Some things one can measure but not hear and other things one can hear > but not measure. Jitter is something that is very easy to measure but > very difficult (impossible actually, at least for normal humans) to > hear. Archimago wrote: > This is precisely why I still bother subscribing to Stereophile - John > Atkinson's technical take on the hardware. > > Notice that the jitter measurements are taken out of the analogue output > from the DAC (in the Feb issue you probably were looking at the review > of the AVM Evolution C9). This is the summation of all the jitter from > the computer/CDP --> cable --> DAC. Unless you run the signal again into > the digital domain (eg. further DSP or digital receiver which > re-digitizes the sound), that's the end of jitter being a problem. > Notice those peaks on Figure 6 and 7 for that review representing jitter > sidebands. The highest of them all is at -100dB or lower whether USB or > TosLink! As per the graph, the 11khz primary signal was at -6dB. This > means that ALL those sideband distortion products (ascribed to jitter) > were *94dB* or more below the signal itself. Notice also how the graph > starts at the top at -70dB, hence giving the impression that these > sidebands are larger than they should be compared to the center > frequency. Is this audible? As Ethan W argued in the debate, this > amount of distortion/noise below the primary signal is inaudible to > humans (heck there's no music that needs anywhere close to this dynamic > range!). > > Realize also that the measurements overall for the product above looks > decidedly average (actually the 24-bit performance looks worse than > average for decent hi-fi); that is, there could be problems with the > audio performance, but jitter as per the graph is not an issue > whatsoever. Excellent example of using measurements to distort what a basically inaudible differences. SoftwireEngineer wrote: > @Mynb - why do you keep forgetting you have so much jitter reduction > built into every equipment in your chain and assuming that the sources > will not matter to other people's systems ? Only in DACs above thousand > dollars I have seen some good jitter reduction > (http://www.anedio.com/index.php/article/squeezebox_touch). Many of us > are running very modest systems where the Touch is the main transport. > My amp is currently a Panasonic receiver and I am pretty sure it has got > a simple PLL to lock on to the stream. Probably that is the reason why > things like the power supply or the TT 3.0 make a difference in my > setup. > I think some of you are taking an extreme stand just like the > unscrupulous audiophile manufacturer you are attacking, but just on the > other end. Jitter is an issue It is an important design consideration in > digital design. The only question is how much is audible and how much > you have to spend to get it to a good reasonable quality. To deal with jitter all one's need to spend is about $50, the price for any cheap portable mp3 player or any cheap DVD/CD player. jh901 wrote: > All sound quality is the same. All of it. Boom box or Wilson Audio > with all uber hi-end electronics. The power supply designs don't > matter. The digital circuitry doesn't matter. The analog stage, fully > balanced or not, has no impact on sound quality. Jitter doesn't exist. > All power amps sound the same too. It doesn't matter how they are > designed, the sound doesn't change. Ok, we get it. > > There are clearly no moderators here, so can we all agree to discuss the > thread topic now? There are some FANTASTIC digital front ends out there > today. Discuss! It isn't clear to me why non-enthusiasts are > participating? Do you guys hang out at wine forums to tell them they > aren't tasting right? Good grief. Many of us here have stated over and over and over again that it's not that we think that NOTHING makes a difference but rather that we think that many things that the audiophile press claim make a difference DON'T, such as mega-buck USB cable or mega-buck power cables. And as has been pointed out several times in this thread, many of the things that can make a difference are ALREADY dealt with very nicely in good quality audio equipment. For example, must halfway decent audio equipment comes with very good quality power supplies so spending money on after market power supplies is usually not a very good investment. The same principle applies to most cables and wires - most well made, good quality cables and wires from companies like Belkin and Blue Jeans Cable is all one really needs to get 99.999% of the performance of any mega-buck cable or wire. But hey: IT'S YOUR MONEY!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 _______________________________________________ audiophiles mailing list [email protected] http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
