Archimago wrote: > Hi John. > > Let's focus on the comments above. > > Firstly are we talking about '-improved eye-pattern-' > (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2680112#post2680112)? > I see that Westlake has been 'critical of the Regen's stock SMPS' > (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2689811&postcount=192) > as well as demonstration of high 8kHz noise current in the USB power > pins! So there doesn't appear to be any improvement in noise if one is > arguing about the 5V line with the stock device.Despite these two aspects, > the plots of the 5V power out of the Regen show it is far cleaner than the Vbus - maybe you are forgetting about the voltage reg?
> 1. So, if we discount the SMPS as not likely to be improving sound > quality and therefore the majority of potential sonic improvement is > from the more precise eye-pattern, -by what mechanism do you think this > would happen-?As I said, the 5V does account for some proportion of the > improvements & as I also said, I'm interested in finding out how said USB signal improvements may be audibly improving the analogue out signal. I could give you my conjecture but I feel it is only going to start the usual tit-for-tat argument so I'm happy for you to have your beliefs & I mine > I'm happy to stick with the "bits are bits" argument and suggest that if > there is no data corruption from a computer's USB data line, then it is > unlikely there will be a sonic difference at all. Sure, maybe the > cleaner Regen data line out has less noise - but I would expect the 8kHz > tone to be measurably reduced not increased if this is part of the noise > reduction. And as for timing accuracy because of better eye-pattern > precision, well maybe if I run an old isochronous DAC this could help > with lower jitter... But asynchronous USB DACs are ubiquitous these days > so I don't see a problem.Sure > 2. John Westlake says differences won't be revealed in the analogue > measurements - *-WHY-*? Why is he not wrong? It is the analogue outputs > we're sending to the preamp/amp/speakers is it not? When I disconnect > the analogue outputs, do I not get silence? Unless there's some other > perhaps magical mechanism by which sonic information is getting to my > amp and speakers, I would very much like to know how this is achieved.Well, I > guess you either think he is mistaken or lying. I doubt either & trust his experience > 3. The general question... "I know you are a great believer in > measurements - have you ever heard an improvement in audio that you > could not measure?" That's a hard one to answer because I generally > don't question every sound I hear or analyze it to death! I post and > measurements for fun and hopefully achieve some understanding into my > hobby. I see contentious -beliefs -over the years stated as almost > foregone conclusions and thought it would be fun to explore these > "uncertainties" in a blog. I accept that there are things *very > difficult* to measure... For example, it's not possible for a typical > hobbyist to measure all the parameters of one's speaker system although > one can get a grasp of some of that. (I'm happy to read what Olive and > Toole have to say!) But there are things which I don't think are all > that difficult to understand - cables, DACs, bitperfect outputs > "sounding different", OS's sounding different come to mind and can be > explored. And in these cases, no, I don't think I've noticed anything > all that mind-blowing, deviates from scientific thinking of how the > engineering works, nor subjectively have I experienced an "improvement" > or "deterioration" that didn't correspond to measurable effects. If > anything, it's the opposite - I find things on measurement that I didn't > expect upon listening (eg. the JPlay issue with Kernel Streaming at > 24/48, excessive SMPS noise with the Tascam UH-7000).Funny, I've asked the > same question to BE78, another believer in measurements & he gave almost exactly the same answer - that being a roundabout way of saying "no, I've never heard a difference that I couldn't measure as being in the audible region on analogue out" Do you measure first & then listen, I wonder? > I would place the claims about the Regen (and Jitterbug) in the same > category of tweaks that are unlikely of benefit... And even if they are > of benefit in certain situations, would likely be because the DAC is > poorly engineered in the first place. I appreciate that some folks are > excited about the products and the testimonies are impressive on some > forums/threads, but after all these months, all these discussions, and > no clear concept presented for mechanism of action and in fact some > results questioning whether it's even beneficial, I really cannot get > excited at the low prospect of benefit in the form of improving fidelity > of one's USB DAC. I thought we discussed months ago Swenson was supposed > to present his objective results... Have you listened to one? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ jkeny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35192 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 _______________________________________________ audiophiles mailing list [email protected] http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
