Tim, You do (as usual), bring a refreshing breath of fresh air to the discussion, with your wry comments.
I am trying to recall the name of the guy (from GCV), who (in the days when computers were very primitive) proposed a system (that was actually trialed at national/pre-worlds? level) of scoring that was (as I very vaguely recall), based on the winner’s performance. If I recall correctly, the winner’s performance was taken as the mark (average thermal strength for the day?), and then this data, was fed back into the polars of each of the other contestants gliders to determine their relative performance and hence score. I think the three stumbling blocks were: 1 Getting realistic polars. 2. Having enough computing power to work out the results in a finite time frame. 3. Classic McCready theory, as opposed to the reality of the day??? Can you help with the name? I am almost certain the scheme proposer published an exhaustive discussion of the methodology in AG. It was little understood (and therefore unpopular), at the time and the whole idea lapsed very quickly after the (one?) trial. Do you recall/know any of this? Gary -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:32 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps Hi all, The current GFA handicap committee consists of Tobi Geiger, Bruce Taylor, Shinzo Takizawa, and ( I think) Hank Kauffmann. No doubt you could approach any or all of those guys for their views, and judging by recent comments here some of you could perhaps offer your services to improve their understanding of polar curves, competition gliding and, (I seem to recall) their quota of common sense :) On the subject of re-scoring competitions under other scoring systems and handicaps, this suggestion makes the rather large assumption that people would all fly the same if their handicaps (and therefore day to day scores) were different. Certainly it is not something I would waste my time on. Cheers Tim Adam Woolley wrote: Yo Jim, Good point mate re: the OLC handicaps, why not adopt them? The juniors lead the way in this one @ the JG just been. Obviously I wasn't there, but I've been told that they worked very well and fairly. Nick, have you got time to post a few comments re: JG @ Gawler? Regards, WPP P.s. Would be good to re-score a MC nats on the JG handicaps to see how the results would've changed the finals.. _____ From: HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: HYPERLINK "mailto:[email protected]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] t Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:25:56 +0000 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps Yeah, Brought this one up at Kingaroy multiclass when I attempted to fly the Mighty ASW 19 against LS8's etc, giving away 4% I recall. ASW 19 max wingloading is only 41kg/sqm, what's the LS8? about 54? Even when you consider only the glide angle, 4% doesn't cover the difference of 39/1 vs 43/1. True, bruce did well at Keepit in his 19 but he did win every day except one at Kingaroy in the std's last year. I would put the performance at Keepit down to Bruce, not the generous multiclass handicap of the 19. You just can't get a fair handicap of a 30 year old glider vs. a new one. Get rid of the handicaps. Don't try to encourage the rest of us with older gliders to turn up to make up the numbers with a few % here and there so you can tell us it's a fair system. V2 better/ worse than ASG29.......depends whose flying it. Uk system is worked out on a standard 4 kt thermal, same system as German system. NZ (who I believe have strong thermals or stuff called wave) have adopted the UK handicap system and use it in their multiclass comp.s. The OLC handicaps (very similar to UK) seem to work well around the world, why not adopt them? Ok, said my bit...... Jim _____ From: HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: HYPERLINK "mailto:[email protected]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] t Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:46:15 +1030 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps Handicaps are for mugs. LS1 1.0 LS4 0.94 LS8 0.92 LS10 0.885 This suggests that the LS4 is 6% better than an LS1 but an 18m flapped LS10 is only 5.5 % better than an LS4. Another way to look at it that in a 3 hour race the LS 8 gives the LS4 3 min 36 sec head start. What does this mean? I don't know but handicaps and common sense don't seem to mesh in my mind. Philip ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"Adam Woolley To: HYPERLINK "mailto:[email protected]"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps A very safe reply there Bernard, no chance of anyone 'biting' in the below reply.. I just love this bit re: handicaps MultiClass LS10/18m: 0.955 Ventus 2cxa: ??? Ventus 2 18m: 0.955 Lak17/18m: 0.955 DG808 Competition: 0.955 ASG29: 0.955 ClubClass LS10: 0.885 Ventus 2cxa: 0.880 Ventus 2c/cx/18m: 0.885 Lak17/18m: 0.885 DG808 18m: 0.885 ASG29: 0.885 Does this mean that the V2cxa has the upperhand!?! Regards WPP _____ From: HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]; HYPERLINK "mailto:[email protected]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] t Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:41:31 +1030 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps Hello Nigel I’m all for fairness and a level playing field but I’m not the person to talk to when it comes to handicapping. I suggest you refer the matter to the handicap committee. Kind regards Bernard Eckey FUTURE AVIATION PTY. LTD. 10 Antigua Grove West Lakes 5021 Adelaide / South Australia Ph/Fax +61 8 8449 2871 mobile 0412 981204 HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] .internode.on.net [HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:aus-soaring-bounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nandrews Sent: Monday, 17 March 2008 8:46 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] -ASG29 handicaps Hi Bernard, O.K seeing as it looks like the ASG29 “walked all over us” then it should be handicapped accordingly, a walking all over us handicap must be at least 2%? Nigel * Nigel Andrews– * * PO BOX 120, Boonah, Queensland Australia 4310 * INT+(617) 54635670* +(617)54635695 * HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] * HYPERLINK "http://www.rf-developments.com/"; \nhttp://www.rf-developments.com RF Developments Pty Ltd "A Queensland Company devoted to Research and Development in aviation electronics" **************DISCLAIMER************ The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. _____ _____ Find a new job on Seek HYPERLINK "http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http://ninemsn.seek.com.au/?tracking%3Ds k:mtl:sk:nine:0:hot:text&_t=764565661&_r=JAN08_endtext_increase&_m=EXT" \nIncrease your salary. _____ _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:[email protected]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] t To check or change subscription details, visit: HYPERLINK "http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring"http://lists.int ernode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _____ Messenger on the move… HYPERLINK "http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx"; \nText MSN to 63463 now! _____ Find it at HYPERLINK "http://www.seek.com.au"www.seek.com.au HYPERLINK "http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2 F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_e ndtext_Future&_m=EXT"Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! _____ _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:[email protected]"[EMAIL PROTECTED] t To check or change subscription details, visit: HYPERLINK "http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring"http://lists.int ernode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM
_______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
