At Adelaide Hills Soaring Group, a winch club clearly marked on the WAC chart,
three army helicopters flew right over the top at well below launch release
height during operations. Complaints elicited no response or apology and
certainly not a visit by the army to buy beers.
Australian military culture is never to admit anything under any circumstances.
These were the instructions when I was in the RANR and also when we did joint
training with the army. Those RAF personel mentioned in previous posts would
have got disciplined here for giving their apologies.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Ruddock
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion
That's not really an excuse to fly 2 abreast at 600ft agl over a gliding site
that has been there for 50 plus years: the wire, had they been seconds earlier
could have really spoilt their day...(Mine too!)
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew Gage
Sent: Thursday, 26 August 2010 9:04 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion
That's because the UK military don't have their own dedicated airspace - they
use class G along with everyone else, with controllers alerting them to radar
returns - which can and do see gliders, even wood and fabric.
I heard another story (again from sutton bank), 2 friends were in wave at
about 10,000' when a tornado flew between them when they were 200m apart. The
controller had filtered their returns out as they weren't moving. Both the
controller and pilot visited the club that evening to apologise and buy beers.
Why Australia needs vast areas of restricted airspace for the 425 military
aircraft is beyond me, when the UK makes do with no airspace (outside of class
D round the bigger airfields) for 1589 military aircraft (data sourced from
wikipedia).
On 26/08/2010, at 8:20 , Derek Ruddock wrote:
Or the time I launched off the winch at Yorkshire Gliding club at Sutton
Bank, after releasing the wire and doing my checks, I had 2 Tornados roar past,
directly underneath me...
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jim crowhurst
Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2010 10:14 PM
To: [email protected]; aus soaring
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion
Often was the case that I would stand there in the morning, whist mopping the
morning dew off the wings of my glider, with the roar of Harrier GR3's
dogfighting directly above at around 6000ft. (INteresting to see their tactics
with variable thrust). The airspace above Britain is small and all forms of
avaiation use it. each has as much rght as another to use it.
I also recall calling a British USAF base up as I was getting low near their
runway threshold (quite legal and within my rights), An american ATC type
answered and indicated that there was an aircraft on approach, but would send
him round until I was clear. I watched with interest as a KC135 'poured on the
coal' and did a large circuit as I gently drifed downwind, climing slowly in my
2knot standard British thermal. The big tanker landed next time round. That was
2003, I doubt a lot has changed.
Then theres the story of a K6 being fliped on it's back at 1800ft when a
Tornado (GR1 I think) zipped past at mach 0.7 whilst running into the bombing
range about 30km away. The footage from the tornado was impressive, just a
white speck flicks past the canopy. The RAF crew were great, came out to the
gliding field and invited a group of us to their station for a look round. That
was cool!
The K6 was fine BTW, it was stalled and the pilot just pulled through!
It's not more dangerous in the UK, just different, and the expectations of
all pilots are different. Like......why do ultralights keep crashing in the
ocean just off the coast of SE queensland. That to me seems dangerous!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:36:34 +0930
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion
It must be difficult at this time of the year airspace wise, as there is an
airshow on almost every weekend somewhere in the country during the summer
holiday season. The quantity of NOTAMs or equivalent must be staggering.
J and I did a holiday over there some years back and went to the Duxford
airshow (absolutely the best airshow I have ever been to btw). Whilst we were
at the show we met a whole stack of backpackers who were airshow junkies and
were traversing the countryside simply to go to where ever the next airshow
was... last weekend was so and so, this weekend is Duxford, next weekend is
such and such. Sure enough the air show proceedings were delayed whilst a
glider wandered through the middle of it all. I always wondered how close he
came to having a Spitfire intercept and escort him out of the area.....
My one bit of flying there, in a Bergfalke 4 no less : ) , was at Burn
gliding club. Whilst flying in the hazy summer weather, we had gliders local
soaring, a Canberra bomber (the last of the EW ones) doing racetracks overhead
and the power jocks from the next airfield over zipping by. All very busy.
On Wed 25/08/10 12:50 PM , "rolf a. buelter" [email protected] sent:
Hi Adam,
Don't think age of the pilots involved makes a scrap of difference, being
nationals one would hope the necessary experience would have provided better
outcomes. I read a number of posts in various forums (would forae be
correcter?) and the task was close but not through airspace. There is some
confusion if it was briefed appropriately.
Rgds - Rolf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:36:15 +0930
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident
I knew someone would point that out! Sadly yes, it did happen there. It
would've only been marginally better if it happened at a seniors.. Spoke to
Andy May the other night about it, he said it was due to poor task setting.
WPP
From: rolf a. buelter
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:16 AM
To: aus soaring
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident
Dare one add that the occasion was their junior nationals?
Rolf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:48:46 +0930
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident
Not good, though worse yet is the 21 pilots who flew through the red arrows
display and had it cancelled! Wonder what that'll mean for UK gliding in the
future.. : (
Thank gosh the pilot is ok,
WPP
From: Christopher Mc Donnell
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident
Pic is one in a million
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8348523.Glider_crashes_at_Shoreham_Airshow/
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