Send them some winch wire and tell them what it does! :] --- On Thu, 26/8/10, Christopher Mc Donnell <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Christopher Mc Donnell <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> Received: Thursday, 26 August, 2010, 3:16 PM At Adelaide Hills Soaring Group, a winch club clearly marked on the WAC chart, three army helicopters flew right over the top at well below launch release height during operations. Complaints elicited no response or apology and certainly not a visit by the army to buy beers. Australian military culture is never to admit anything under any circumstances. These were the instructions when I was in the RANR and also when we did joint training with the army. Those RAF personel mentioned in previous posts would have got disciplined here for giving their apologies. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Ruddock To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion That’s not really an excuse to fly 2 abreast at 600ft agl over a gliding site that has been there for 50 plus years: the wire, had they been seconds earlier could have really spoilt their day...(Mine too!) From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew Gage Sent: Thursday, 26 August 2010 9:04 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion That's because the UK military don't have their own dedicated airspace - they use class G along with everyone else, with controllers alerting them to radar returns - which can and do see gliders, even wood and fabric. I heard another story (again from sutton bank), 2 friends were in wave at about 10,000' when a tornado flew between them when they were 200m apart. The controller had filtered their returns out as they weren't moving. Both the controller and pilot visited the club that evening to apologise and buy beers. Why Australia needs vast areas of restricted airspace for the 425 military aircraft is beyond me, when the UK makes do with no airspace (outside of class D round the bigger airfields) for 1589 military aircraft (data sourced from wikipedia). On 26/08/2010, at 8:20 , Derek Ruddock wrote: Or the time I launched off the winch at Yorkshire Gliding club at Sutton Bank, after releasing the wire and doing my checks, I had 2 Tornados roar past, directly underneath me... From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] on Behalf Of jim crowhurst Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2010 10:14 PM To: [email protected]; aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion Often was the case that I would stand there in the morning, whist mopping the morning dew off the wings of my glider, with the roar of Harrier GR3's dogfighting directly above at around 6000ft. (INteresting to see their tactics with variable thrust). The airspace above Britain is small and all forms of avaiation use it. each has as much rght as another to use it. I also recall calling a British USAF base up as I was getting low near their runway threshold (quite legal and within my rights), An american ATC type answered and indicated that there was an aircraft on approach, but would send him round until I was clear. I watched with interest as a KC135 'poured on the coal' and did a large circuit as I gently drifed downwind, climing slowly in my 2knot standard British thermal. The big tanker landed next time round. That was 2003, I doubt a lot has changed. Then theres the story of a K6 being fliped on it's back at 1800ft when a Tornado (GR1 I think) zipped past at mach 0.7 whilst running into the bombing range about 30km away. The footage from the tornado was impressive, just a white speck flicks past the canopy. The RAF crew were great, came out to the gliding field and invited a group of us to their station for a look round. That was cool! The K6 was fine BTW, it was stalled and the pilot just pulled through! It's not more dangerous in the UK, just different, and the expectations of all pilots are different. Like......why do ultralights keep crashing in the ocean just off the coast of SE queensland. That to me seems dangerous! To: [email protected] Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:36:34 +0930 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK airspace incursion It must be difficult at this time of the year airspace wise, as there is an airshow on almost every weekend somewhere in the country during the summer holiday season. The quantity of NOTAMs or equivalent must be staggering. J and I did a holiday over there some years back and went to the Duxford airshow (absolutely the best airshow I have ever been to btw). Whilst we were at the show we met a whole stack of backpackers who were airshow junkies and were traversing the countryside simply to go to where ever the next airshow was... last weekend was so and so, this weekend is Duxford, next weekend is such and such. Sure enough the air show proceedings were delayed whilst a glider wandered through the middle of it all. I always wondered how close he came to having a Spitfire intercept and escort him out of the area..... My one bit of flying there, in a Bergfalke 4 no less : ) , was at Burn gliding club. Whilst flying in the hazy summer weather, we had gliders local soaring, a Canberra bomber (the last of the EW ones) doing racetracks overhead and the power jocks from the next airfield over zipping by. All very busy. On Wed 25/08/10 12:50 PM , "rolf a. buelter" [email protected] sent: Hi Adam, Don't think age of the pilots involved makes a scrap of difference, being nationals one would hope the necessary experience would have provided better outcomes. I read a number of posts in various forums (would forae be correcter?) and the task was close but not through airspace. There is some confusion if it was briefed appropriately. Rgds - Rolf From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:36:15 +0930 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident I knew someone would point that out! Sadly yes, it did happen there. It would've only been marginally better if it happened at a seniors.. Spoke to Andy May the other night about it, he said it was due to poor task setting. WPP From: rolf a. buelter Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:16 AM To: aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident Dare one add that the occasion was their junior nationals? Rolf From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:48:46 +0930 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident Not good, though worse yet is the 21 pilots who flew through the red arrows display and had it cancelled! Wonder what that'll mean for UK gliding in the future.. : ( Thank gosh the pilot is ok, WPP From: Christopher Mc Donnell Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident Pic is one in a million http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8348523.Glider_crashes_at_Shoreham_Airshow/ _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] to check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] to check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] to check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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