Thanks - I read this through a few days ago and gather this document focusses on the cost not justifying the relatively low incident rate. However, (as some have pointed out on this forum) the more situational awareness that can be acheived the better, so it appears there is some support for the instrument. I note some discussion taking place about how to fit the instrument display in a small panel and the impracticalities facing balloon, HG & parasailers.
My query relating to Task planning is not answered - is it a realistic consideration or not? (I'm relatively new to the sport so please excuse my ignorance) Nelson On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 4:30 PM, <[email protected] > wrote: > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42 (John Welsh) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:30:10 +0800 > From: "John Welsh" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42 > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Nelson, > > > > Suggest you read this in detail: > > http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/CASA/ASAC_DP1001AS_Response.pdf > > > > Cheers, > > John Welsh > > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nelson > Handcock > Sent: Saturday, 27 November 2010 2:10 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42 > > > > Excuse what might appear a dumb question, but apart from the cost of > installing & maintaining the instruments, what is the issue for gliding > here? > > I take it an extra battery would be required - so I guess this has to be > factored into task planning - how many do we need to ensure the instrument > has power for the duration....? > > Say I wanted to do a XC task and I expected to be flying for 3-4 hours - > will I need 1 or more 12 volt battery? Does weight become an issue? > > What else is the concern here? > > > Thanks! > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 7:16 PM, > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ADSB in gliders and sport aviation (John Welsh) > 2. Re: ADSB in gliders and sport aviation (Mark Fisher) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 17:02:39 +0800 > From: "John Welsh" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ADSB in gliders and sport aviation > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > PowerFLARM doesn't appear to provide ADSB Out only ADSB In. > > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Simon > Hackett > Sent: Friday, 26 November 2010 4:02 PM > To: Mal Bruce; AUS Soaring > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ADSB in gliders and sport aviation > > > > Hello Mal (et al), > > > > That device already exists. Its called a "PowerFLARM": > > > > http://www.butterfly.aero/powerflarm/fly/ > > > > and/or > > > > http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/traffic-monitor.htm > > > > This looks like its just about to go into full production. > > > > Note that its quoted as being able to run for 8 hours on six AA batteries > (or from a glider battery, obviously, as an alternative). > > > > i.e. presumably the current draw isn't unreasonable. > > > > That doesn't magically solve the economic question, but it does suggest > that > the actual technology you require here (along with a Mode-S transponder, I > guess) is certainly available (or nearly so). > > > > I must say that I find the notion of a combination Flarm and ADS-B to be > highly appealing as a safety tool. Its eye-opening (literally) to see the > thing the ADS-B in my Cirrus picks up before I see them out of the window. > > > > Regards, > > Simon > > > > On 26/11/2010, at 6:00 PM, Mal Bruce wrote: > > > > > > > > Could flarm and ADSB run on a single unit I recall having discussion with > Nigel about this how about your expert opinion? > > > > Personally I 100% support technology being used for collision avoidance the > cost of the units and current battery technology is minimal and the shared > cost per aircraft far out weighs the cost of one life. > > > > I am sure that negotiated properly some costs could be shared by GFA and > the > federal government CASA after all they want "safe sky's for all"! > > > > Mal > > > > > > > CASA Discussion Paper Response - Urgent Action Required > > > > > To: GFA Members, Gliding Clubs and Regional Gliding Associations > > > > Urgent Action Required > > > > See the response by > < > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT > < > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT > %0AEzMTk/index.html<http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT%0A%0AEzMTk/index.html> > > > EzMTk/index.html> ASAC to CASA relating to > < > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT > < > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT > %0AEzMjA/index.html<http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT%0A%0AEzMjA/index.html> > > > EzMjA/index.html> Discussion Paper 1006AS In a nutshell, it proposes to > mandate universal fitting of ADSB and Mode S to all aircraft for use in all > classifications of airspace. This is completely unacceptable to sport > aviation generally and gliding particularly. > > > > The GFA will be submitting a response which will express similar views to > those of ASAC. > > > > It is important that as many responses as possible are submitted expressing > concerns about the proposal and at the very least expressing strong support > for the ASAC submission. > > > > Submissions can be made easily by individuals and club representatives via > CASA website " > < > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT > < > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT > %0AEzMjE/index.html<http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT%0A%0AEzMjE/index.html> > > > EzMjE/index.html> Response to Regulatory Change Proposal". > > Detailed individual responses would be preferred but a response which just > expresses dissatisfaction with CASA's consultation and then notes for each > item that changes would make it acceptable, with a final comment supporting > the ASAC paper will at least get the message across. > > > > It would greatly assist our position if each organisation can ensure a > response on their behalf before 30 November and encourage all individual > members to do the same. Apologies for the short notice. > > > > Phil McCann > > President > > <ATT00001..txt> > > > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3278 - Release Date: 11/25/10 > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20101 > 126/50bf5657/attachment.html<http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20101%0A126/50bf5657/attachment.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:16:23 +1100 > From: Mark Fisher <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ADSB in gliders and sport aviation > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Guys, > Swift Avionics will be the Australian agent for PowerFlarm. > Will advertise when it's ready to sell. > Cheers > Mark > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:02 PM, John Welsh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > PowerFLARM doesn?t appear to provide ADSB Out only ADSB In. > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Simon Hackett > > *Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2010 4:02 PM > > *To:* Mal Bruce; AUS Soaring > > *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] ADSB in gliders and sport aviation > > > > > > > > Hello Mal (et al), > > > > > > > > That device already exists. Its called a "PowerFLARM": > > > > > > > > http://www.butterfly.aero/powerflarm/fly/ > > > > > > > > and/or > > > > > > > > http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/traffic-monitor.htm > > > > > > > > This looks like its just about to go into full production. > > > > > > > > Note that its quoted as being able to run for 8 hours on six AA batteries > > (or from a glider battery, obviously, as an alternative). > > > > > > > > i.e. presumably the current draw isn't unreasonable. > > > > > > > > That doesn't magically solve the economic question, but it does suggest > > that the actual technology you require here (along with a Mode-S > > transponder, I guess) is certainly available (or nearly so). > > > > > > > > I must say that I find the notion of a combination Flarm and ADS-B to be > > highly appealing as a safety tool. Its eye-opening (literally) to see the > > thing the ADS-B in my Cirrus picks up before I see them out of the > window. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Simon > > > > > > > > On 26/11/2010, at 6:00 PM, Mal Bruce wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Could flarm and ADSB run on a single unit I recall having discussion with > > Nigel about this how about your expert opinion? > > > > > > > > Personally I 100% support technology being used for collision avoidance > the > > cost of the units and current battery technology is minimal and the > shared > > cost per aircraft far out weighs the cost of one life. > > > > > > > > I am sure that negotiated properly some costs could be shared by GFA and > > the federal government CASA after all they want ?safe sky?s for all?! > > > > > > > > Mal > > > > > > > > > > > > *CASA Discussion Paper Response - Urgent Action Required* > > > > > > > > To: GFA Members, Gliding Clubs and Regional Gliding Associations > > > > > > > > *Urgent Action Required* > > > > > > > > See the response by *ASAC to > CASA*< > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpP > TEzNTEzMTk/index.html<http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpP%0ATEzNTEzMTk/index.html>>relating > to > > *Discussion Paper > 1006AS*< > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5Jmx > pPTEzNTEzMjA/index.html<http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5Jmx%0ApPTEzNTEzMjA/index.html> > > > > * * In a nutshell, it proposes to mandate universal fitting of ADSB and > > Mode S to all aircraft for use in all classifications of airspace. This > is > > completely unacceptable to sport aviation generally and gliding > > particularly. > > > > > > > > The GFA will be submitting a response which will express similar views to > > those of ASAC. > > > > > > > > It is important that as many responses as possible are submitted > expressing > > concerns about the proposal and at the very least expressing strong > support > > for the ASAC submission. > > > > > > > > Submissions can be made easily by individuals and club representatives > via > > CASA website *"**Response to Regulatory Change > Proposal*< > http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5J > mxpPTEzNTEzMjE/index.html<http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5J%0AmxpPTEzNTEzMjE/index.html> > > > > *"*. > > > > Detailed individual responses would be preferred but a response which > just > > expresses dissatisfaction with CASA's consultation and then notes for > each > > item that changes would make it acceptable, with a final comment > supporting > > the ASAC paper will at least get the message across. > > > > > > > > It would greatly assist our position if each organisation can ensure a > > response on their behalf before 30 November and encourage all individual > > members to do the same. Apologies for the short notice. > > > > > > > > Phil McCann > > > > President > > > > <ATT00001..txt> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3278 - Release Date: 11/25/10 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > -- > Mark Fisher > Managing Director > Swift Performance Equipment > PO Box 726, Lismore, NSW > Australia > Ph: +61 2 66221666 > Fax: +61 2 66221633 > www.spe.com.au > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20101 > 126/b7e46f4b/attachment.html<http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20101%0A126/b7e46f4b/attachment.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42 > ******************************************* > > > > > -- > Nelson Handcock > 0409 149919 > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3282 - Release Date: 11/26/10 > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20101127/43ef0e6b/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 47 > ******************************************* > -- Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia
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