European handicaps are for weak weather.
I flew a Nimbus4 last year in Szeged - on the practice days I had absolutely no
problem passing Graham and David in their 18M gliders, If I had been in my 29 I
MIGHT have been able to keep up!
There is no perfect handicap system.
Tom
________________________________
From: Tim Shirley <[email protected]>
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2011 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Handicaps
Hi all,
I support and applaud the work of the handicap committee who do a
terrific job in difficult and contentious circumstances.
Handicaps work by reducing performance differences measured
according to competition results, because that's what they adjust -
handicaps don't adjust the polar curves or wing loadings. This is
an important point - handicaps should not be set on differences in
wing loading or polars, because it would not necessarily change the
performance in competitions in the same proportion.
The setting of handicaps may determine who does and does not attend
among the top group, but more importantly it has an effect on how
many older gliders attend and in what numbers, because no one likes
to be cannon fodder. One could be cynical and call it a marketing
exercise. For example the handicappers probably won't give a
Kestrel 17 a handicap such that it is likely to beat an ASG29 in
18M, or to have a Libelle 201 beat a LS8 in Standard. But in Club
Class, well maybe the marketing strategy is different. No one would
mind giving a Libelle pilot the trophy in that class, although these
days the median performance in Club Class is closer to LS4 than
Libelle. In 2011 Club Class was won by an LS1F, with a LS4 close
behind, both flown by members of the Australian Team. Nothing wrong
with those handicaps...
In 2008 the 1985 model Discus A I now own (Harry will remember it as
XQI) was flown to a win in the Multiclass Nationals, beating a bunch
of LS8s and Discus 2s. It had a 1% handicap advantage, but also was
flown by a top class pilot at his home club. Is 1% a fair handicap
for a more than 20 year old glider against almost new opposition?
Apparently it was too much in this case :)
Those who prefer having no handicaps should remember that this is
also a handicap system, except that the handicap is then the
relative size of the pilot's disposable income. In the no handicap
system it doesn't matter how good you are if you can't afford the
latest and greatest.
Perhaps though, the solution is to outsource the entire problem.
There is a perfectly good DaEC handicap system in Europe, let's just
use it - it will save a lot of keystrokes here, and hot air in
pilots meetings. Then we can get back to something more
interesting, like climate change :)
Untitled Document
Cheers
Tim
tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare
On 18/08/2011 10:07, harry medlicott wrote:
>Hi Ross and others,
>
>I have always, whether in sport or in business, been very reluctant to pursue
>a course from which I will personally benefit. However now, with my eightieth
>birthday well and truly in sight feel that reccomendations as to handicaps can
>be made without anyone pointing the finger and shouting self interest.
>Possibly offending my friends has also been a consideration.
>
>If you truly believe that the V2 is comparable with the ASG 29 and probably
>the Js1 then you are about the only one in the world wide gliding community to
>think that way. Even Schempp Hirth who make them recognise the act and made a
>V2 with a different A fuselage and market it as their competion glider. See
>You give a 4% difference between the gliders. Published sink rate data shows
>a 6% advantage to the ASG 29 at high speed fully ballasted. Australia has only
>a small pool of pilots with the skills, gliders, financial support and
>testosterone to compete internationally. You could count them on your fingers
>whereas western europe has 30 times more pilots than us and vastly more of
>international standard. Look at the results of european competitions and you
>will see which gliders are best and by how much.
>
>I made a submission last year relating to handicaps which is attached. The
>first part dealt with open class and that the latest 18 metre gliders, flying
>with wing loadings of up to 55 kg.per sq metre were more than a match for
>older open class gliders restricted to about 45 kg. per sq. metre,
>particularly as most competition days are flown in the strong part of the
>day. This made the older design open class gliders uncompetitive and could
>well damage the future of open class, particularly as it appeared that pilots
>with overseas aspirations were entering open class to better their chances of
>team selection. I note some handicap changes have been made to address this
>problem.
>
>In 18 metre class virtually all the gliders likely to compete have been given
>the same handicap.
>
>Is the intention to make 18 metre a non handicapped class?
>If pilots feel they have a diminished chance of succeeding due to handicapping
>abnormalities surely that will affect competition entries?
>Is the intention to encourage pilots with aspirations to import the best
>performing gliders?
>Is the intention of handicapping to put all competing gliders on an equal
>footing as far as possible or is it just to give those with a lesser
>performing glider a bit of hope?
>
>Regards,
>
>Harry Medlicott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- ,
>>From: Ross McLean
>>To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:44 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Handicaps
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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