Hi,
I agree with Ross almost 100%.
Two points:
1. There is already an even held annually for elite pilots who are
eligible for selection to International Teams. It is called "Squad
Week" and it is the perfect time to hone the international competitive
skills, tactics and strategies that are necessary for success in the
international environment. If that's not enough, then Adam should be
talking to Peter Trotter and/or Mandy Temple about the need for change
to that event.
2. Glider manufacturers are putting a big effort into the 18M class,
and then offering variations. In order to cater for other classes
they produce extended wingtips for Open class and short wingtips for
15M class. If those other classes didn't exist, neither would the
wingtips.
Around my club, and probably most others, the 18M gliders fly at 18M.
Not 21M, not 15M. In fact unless the owner is giong to compete
in 15M or Open they probably didn't even buy the alternate tips.
No one makes new 15M gliders any more. The class internationally is
entirely flown by cut-off 18M gliders, and in Australia by very good
but dated gliders which are no better than more modern Standard Class
ships. As a result it has proved and attractive (dare I say "soft
option") for top class Standard Class gliders and pilots.
In Standard Class the best gliders are 20+ year old designs. LS8 and
Discus 2 are terrific gliders and they may have gone about as far as
it is possible to go design-wise in that configuration. My 1985
Discus has only a 1% handicap difference to the best available
Standard Class glider today. No point in upgrading :)
18M is where the action is.
Cheers
_TIM_
_Tra dire e fare, c’è mezzo il mare_
----- Original Message -----
From: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
To:"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
Cc:
Sent:Sun, 2 Feb 2014 18:26:30 +1000
Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
Hi Adam
Firstly, congratulations on asking the hard questions You have
clearly put some thought into it and you are passionate about your
sport. I will be very interested to hear/see other pilots point of
view on your suggestions. My opinion differs from yours however, but
nothing in this email should be construed as criticism of or
disagreement with your ideas but simply as my personal point of view
and I strongly encourage you to continue thinking outside the box on
these ideas.
As a current Standard Class Nationals competitor and former Chair of
the NCC, I have grappled with a number of the points you raise and
have discussed a number of the solutions you propose with both the NCC
and Sports Committee members during my past tenure and so I hope to be
able to clearly express an informed view for you.
Just to get some perspective on how the GFA funding should be
spent. First thing to say is that the GFA exists to serve the entire
gliding community in Australia. It is this broad community who pay
the bulk of the money that funds the GFA. Of this broad community
there are a minority who choose to participate in Gliding
Competitions. These competitors pay an additional levy to GFA (part
of the competition fee) which goes to support the International
Competitors and usually there is an additional cost to competitors to
pay for enough tugs to arrive to run the comp effectively. Of this
minority of gliding competitors there is quite a small group that are
eligible/interested/able to compete Internationally. Of the entire
GFA community there are only about ten or 12 competitors selected to
compete internationally.
National Gliding Competitions and International Teams Selection:
The National Gliding Competitions are held each year in order to
establish who are the best *COMPETITION GLIDER PILOTS* in the
country. These competitions have nothing at all to do with
International Team Selection. Coincidentally, at the moment the ITC
does however use the results from these competitions as a convenient
benchmark to assist in selecting the International Teams.
"Gliding in Australia is oversubscribed with competitions":
Hooray!! It is no coincidence that the competition scene has grown
from being almost non-existent a few short years ago, to now being
almost oversubscribed (a very healthy and good situation). The
introduction of handicaps and the honing of the rules to eliminate
inequities and set a level playing field, along with a strong push for
formal Cross Country Coaching and encouraging the Junior Gliding
movement, has resulted in the current very healthy competition
scene.
Pair Flying at National Championships:
The idea of implementing rules and processes into the National
Competitions that are focussed solely on team selection or pair flying
training has been discussed for many years and is not supported at all
by the greater competition pilot community and rightly so. Of the 52
weeks of each year there are only two weeks that do not allow pair
flying, they are the two weeks of National Competition. The
competitions do not exist to serve the needs of the dozen or so elite
International Competitors and nor should they.
Combining Classes:
The 15m Racing Class and the Open Class have long been the least well
represented classes. I personally think this is a great shame and
don't really understand why that is the case. When competition
organisers are forced to combine 15m and Standard and 18m and Open,
nobody is really happy about it. It is not a solution which will see
those two classes grow in their own right. In fact quite the
opposite. The 15m flapped guys don't like being whipped by unflapped
LS8's as occurred at the Kingaroy MultiClass Nationals and the Open
Class guys hate getting whipped by the 18m gliders, but it is the
inevitable outcome when you combine these classes in Australia.
There are two ways in which the current situation can be changed for
the better. One is expensive and requires Australian competitors go
out and buy more competitive and state of the art gliders. (Diana,
ASG29-15m, EB29, Quintus etc).
The second and better way is that we devise a solution that
encourages more 15m flapped and Open Class gliders to turn up to a
National Comp so they can have their own class.
There is no shortage of 15m Flapped gliders in Australia already (88
total):-
15m Racing Class (Flapped):
· 24 x ASW-20
· 20 x ASW-27
· 11 x LS-6
· 11 x 15m Ventus (A/B)
· 22 x LS3
Similarly there are 32 Open Class gliders in Australia currently:-
Open Class:
· 3 x JS1 C
· 1 x Quintus
· 6 x ASH-25
· 4 x ASH-31
· 15 x Nimbus 3/4 (all types)
· 3 ASW-22
Having just one Big Nationals:
The only people that need more than 2 weeks a year to compete are
those that compete in more than one national competition. This is
again back to the minority ruling the majority. Not required.
The vast majority of Club Class competitors only compete at Club
Class. There is a small minority who fly ASW-20 or similar machines
that also compete in Multi Class. No-one else can do it. Sports
Class is an Australian anachronism, (that we all love!!) but is not
really a valid competition and is even worse now that it is ballasted.
That is, a JS1-C or an ASG-29 fully ballasted will eat everything else
alive no matter how you handicap them, so it is now more just for fun
than anything else really.
The extra stretch in the logistics required to run a competition with
80 or more competitors is quite significant. Talk to any recent Comps
Director and organising committee and listen to their responses.
Thanks for reading this far.
Cheers, ROSS
_________________________________________________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adam
Woolley
Sent: Sunday, 2 February 2014 10:44 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
G'day All,
What do you think of the below?
Keen to hear from those who aren't going for team selection, would
you still turn up to the team selection years (or to the nationals
that allowed pair flying every other year)?
Also from non-comp pilots, how would you feel about the GFA spending
money on the tug ferry fees?
& from people who are generally in the organisation of comps, would
this be better or worse for you or your club?
What are other advantages & disadvantages that I've forgotten about?
Or points I've made, but over looked or got incorrect?
Other?
Cheers,
WPP
As you're all aware, gliding in Australia is oversubscribed with
competitions, as well as the team selection process being far to
onerous. I have a simple solution to all this.
At the recent Waikerie Club & Sports Class Nationals, it was seen
that it's easily possible & safe to task wet & dry gliders together -
using start lines.
I propose that we hold one nationals every biannual year, which will
house all classes - except 20m class. Run using the GFA national rules
as it is now.
I propose we combine STD & 15m class together & run a '15m
performance' class, then award the highest placed STD & Racing class
glider/pilot as the national champion - for history sake. Why run it
as a combined class? It's not as much fun flying against 7 other
competitors, when you could be challenging yourself against 30 plus
others!
The same could be said for 18m & Open Class, combine them (as they
often are) as an 'Open' Class The only difference here, the 18m
gliders/pilots would have to declare what class they were going for
the national champion title in.
Alternatively, have the 18m & Open Class separate - & only combine
them should the Open entries be not enough to make its own class
outright. Again though, is competing against 7 other gliders that much
fun?
Club would be run as it is now Simple.
How many competitors would this attract at a site? Probably 80-90 odd
gliders. That's crazy I hear you say. Not really, in years gone past
they used to get those numbers (& more!) & managed.
Gliding is shrinking. The only clubs that are running nationals now
are big clubs, & are all at sites where they can handle such numbers.
So the site isn't the issue.
The tugs are an issue. Or are they? Simple solution. If GFA want to
see their sport & population grow, they'll put their money where their
mouth is! Pay at least 2/3's of the tug ferry costs for the
competitors. Done. It'd be no different to what it is now in SA where
we have to pay large tug levies.
This idea/proposal. Run it every biannual year, with every other year
running as a team selection competition, let's call it the 'open' comp
for now. This 'Open' comp would be run exactly as the nationals is,
except 'pair' flying would be allowed.
Note! I didn't say team flying, team flying to me could result with
multiple gliders flying around in a 6 ship gaggle every day to improve
their chances of winning. So only pairs would be allowed, teams would
be extremely frowned upon.
Note! If & when a solo pilot wins the 'Open' comp - they'd still be
eligible to make the team. Though I'll leave the team selection
guidelines to the ITC in this proposal.
Would the people still turn up to this 'Open' comp if they're not
interested in team selection? I think so. As it's still an organised
2wk gliding event to go flying with their mates. Maybe more would turn
up than normal, as they'd be able to fly alongside their 'pair' flying
mate - & not get shot down as they would now!
Alternatively. Run a nationals every year, however only every other
year will be used for selection - & this particular year, 'pair'
flying would be allowed. Easy.
Why leave 20m class out? We want this class to grow. It wouldn't grow
as fast as it could if it were included at the nats/open comp. Just
run it at a State champs every year, with only the team selection year
as the one that counts.
Advantages of having only one big 2wk competition a year...
* It's only 2wks out of your precious 4wks a year annual leave.
* Only one lot of organisation people get put out every year. Clubs &
the organisation less likely to get burnt out.
* State comps, regattas & coaching events will grow: as people will
have an extra 2wks a year to spend how ever they choose.
* If you're only after team selection, then in the 'off' years, the
pilot could go to the European Gliding Championships, or other
European nationals to get vital experience in helping AUS become a
world leader in gliding.
* More people in towns. Greater support from councils. Greater chance
of major sponsorship (GFA should pay for a dedicated sponsorship &
advertiser of the event - leaving this up to clubs is never going to
work, as it hasn't up to now. Ultimately we don't know what we're
doing, & we just don't have the man power or time to do it now).
Greater exposure for gliding in general.
* Potentially attract more international competitors due to the
amount of numbers & likely better competition in each class. Which as
a result will make our pilots better. We could advertise it like the
'World Cup' that the paragliders have. Advertisers & media can spin up
& promote it!
* God forbid, pilots could spend their other 2wks a year having a
regular holiday with their family or friends!!
Disadvantages...
* It's a risk to try it, due unknown amount of competitors that would
turn up. I think, what we're doing now isn't working (for AUS
international results), why not try something new! WA State comps saw
great success with numbers growing once they combined into one big
class (Don Woodward said he 'raced' one other competitor in 15m class
one year before they changed the format, that's definitely no fun!).
* Tugs. This can be fixed if GFA put their hand into their pockets to
help their/our sport grow.
Regards,
Adam Woolley
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected] [1]
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring [2]
Links:
------
[1] mailto:[email protected]
[2] http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected]
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
