Hi All,
Harry has given us some good information here, which should be of special
interest to newer competition pilots.
I am somewhat at loss as to why Harry made comment in his last paragraph
on team flying. Team flying is OUT in Australian National Competitions, and
Ross McLean in a very recent post on this site explained exactly why.
Harry gave a brief comment on Start Line (as currently used), as opposed to
Start Circle, and as I see it, voted for the start circle. Perhaps Harry
might like add some extra comment here?
From my now EXTENSIVE experience of using a start line, I can say that the
reality is that it would seem that in a majority of circumstances the actual
start method does not really matter that much. However note my use of the
words "SEEM" & "MAJORITY". As Harry pointed out, there are exceptions, and
there is not the slightest doubt, that safety is compromised, in these
exceptions.
The Europeans love start lines ( despite all its potential hazards),
because European pilots mostly team fly, and using a start line makes the
start easier for a team.
It is my understanding that Australia pioneered the use of allocated Start
Circles. In Harry's paragraph 6, he talks about Start Point Circle layout
geometry. The competition guide lines unambiguously set all this out: Very
safe, and very fair. {I use "fair" as some pilots seem to think (argue),
that having a choice of ONLY three start points is very inhibiting, and very
unfair.] My comment - GET REAL!
Basically THERE ARE MINIMAL HAZZARDS associated with start circles. If you
don't quite "get it' yet, I STRONGLY advocate that in Australia we
exclusively use start circles. They tend to inhibit a team flying approach,
and they tend to inhabit a start gaggle, which is of course why the
Europeans have not adopted the idea.
Gary Stevenson
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harry
Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 3:39 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
Hi All,
These notes may be of interest,
Having a background of flying competitions for over 20years, being
coordinator of the National Pilots Safety Committee and being involved in a
midair in which I was hit from behind by a following glider and only just
opening my parachute in time, maybe these comments may have some value.
Over the period 1988 to 1999, national multiclass competitions mid air
collisions resulted in 2 fatal mid airs, several pilots just opening their
parachutes just in time, 5 gliders destroyed, as well as other mid airs
where the damage did not result in loss of control. A number of pilots gave
up flying competitions. One in ten of the pilots who flew National
multiclass competitions during that period was involved in a mid air
collision. The number of competitors during that period substantially
reduced.
By way of comparison the very popular national club class competitions which
used an optional turn point tasking system, did not, to my memory, have a
single mid air accident. The tasking system used resulted in very little
gaggling.
The National Pilots Safety Committee was formed to research these accidents
and to suggest ways of preventing them. Changes made, Largely as a result
of the Committees efforts included. Assigned start points to reduce gaggles,
mandatory frequencies, mandatory safety briefings including providing
extensive notes to pilots and Assigned Area Tasks particularly for use on
difficult days. Suggestions for task setters included avoiding out and
return situations, Having an included angle of no less than 30 degrees
between legs and setting tasks which avoided all classes coming home
together at about the same time over a long leg.
Some care is needed when applying these recommendations. As an example,
assigned start points, usually in three groups of three, should be within
about 40 degrees of right angles to the most common first legs. This ensures
pilots go straight on track and not cruise through other start points after
starting themselves.
Surely it is not a coincidence that since these changes were introduced mid
air accidents have virtually ceased and the number of pilots flying
competitions has increased? We now have Flarms which are a benefit but
cannot by itself explain the improvement. The major circumstance where
midair collisions occur is in or when a glider is joining a thermal.
Statistically you can build a pyramid starting with the number of times a
glider joins another or a group thermalling. The next line is when a less
than optimum but not immediately dangerous situation occurs, then a highly
dangerous situation and at the top of the pyramid an actual midair. By
training we can reduce the progression but there is always a correlation.
The more times gliders join a turning glider, the more accidents at the top
of the pyramid.
Accidents when gliders are following the same track or cross each others
path as can occur in an AAT are extremely rare and a circumstance where
Flarms are particularly effective.
For these reasons it is very concerning that some pilots are advocating and
consideration is being given to returning to conditions which obtained
during the years when we had an epidemic of accidents. Start lines result in
pilots starting together and gaggling is far worse, particularly on blue
days, just as occurred years ago with unallocated start points I understand
that some pilots like to fly as a team or a pair. Not sure that the silent
majority are happy when our best pilots, perhaps hoping or training for
international team selection , fly as a pair. The advantages of pair or team
flying are such that when the best pilots do it, not much chance for the
rest. It may well be GFA policy to encourage pair flying by using start
lines but I hope they are aware of the potential risks.
Having safe competitions must be our first priority.
Harry Medlicott
From: rolf a. buelter <mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 2:45 PM
To: aus soaring <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
As comp pilot permission of team flying will be a disincentive. Would not
prevent me to come but together with other factors make it less likely.
As GFA member I would not welcome to subsidise towing cost for comp pilots,
including myself.
Rgds - Rolf
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 10:43:35 +1000
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
>
> G'day All,
>
> What do you think of the below?
>
> Keen to hear from those who aren't going for team selection, would you
still turn up to the team selection years (or to the nationals that allowed
pair flying every other year)?
>
> Also from non-comp pilots, how would you feel about the GFA spending money
on the tug ferry fees?
>
> & from people who are generally in the organisation of comps, would this
be better or worse for you or your club?
>
> What are other advantages & disadvantages that I've forgotten about? Or
points I've made, but over looked or got incorrect?
>
> Other?
>
>
> Cheers,
> WPP
>
>
>
> As you're all aware, gliding in Australia is oversubscribed with
competitions, as well as the team selection process being far to onerous. I
have a simple solution to all this.
>
> At the recent Waikerie Club & Sports Class Nationals, it was seen that
it's easily possible & safe to task wet & dry gliders together - using start
lines.
>
> I propose that we hold one nationals every biannual year, which will house
all classes - except 20m class. Run using the GFA national rules as it is
now.
>
> I propose we combine STD & 15m class together & run a '15m performance'
class, then award the highest placed STD & Racing class glider/pilot as the
national champion - for history sake. Why run it as a combined class? It's
not as much fun flying against 7 other competitors, when you could be
challenging yourself against 30 plus others!
>
> The same could be said for 18m & Open Class, combine them (as they often
are) as an 'Open' Class. The only difference here, the 18m gliders/pilots
would have to declare what class they were going for the national champion
title in.
>
> Alternatively, have the 18m & Open Class separate - & only combine them
should the Open entries be not enough to make its own class outright. Again
though, is competing against 7 other gliders that much fun?
>
> Club would be run as it is now. Simple.
>
> How many competitors would this attract at a site? Probably 80-90 odd
gliders. That's crazy I hear you say. Not really, in years gone past they
used to get those numbers (& more!) & managed.
>
> Gliding is shrinking. The only clubs that are running nationals now are
big clubs, & are all at sites where they can handle such numbers. So the
site isn't the issue.
>
> The tugs are an issue. Or are they? Simple solution. If GFA want to see
their sport & population grow, they'll put their money where their mouth is!
Pay at least 2/3's of the tug ferry costs for the competitors. Done. It'd be
no different to what it is now in SA where we have to pay large tug levies.
>
> This idea/proposal. Run it every biannual year, with every other year
running as a team selection competition, let's call it the 'open' comp for
now. This 'Open' comp would be run exactly as the nationals is, except
'pair' flying would be allowed.
>
> Note! I didn't say team flying, team flying to me could result with
multiple gliders flying around in a 6 ship gaggle every day to improve their
chances of winning. So only pairs would be allowed, teams would be extremely
frowned upon.
>
> Note! If & when a solo pilot wins the 'Open' comp - they'd still be
eligible to make the team. Though I'll leave the team selection guidelines
to the ITC in this proposal.
>
> Would the people still turn up to this 'Open' comp if they're not
interested in team selection? I think so. As it's still an organised 2wk
gliding event to go flying with their mates. Maybe more would turn up than
normal, as they'd be able to fly alongside their 'pair' flying mate - & not
get shot down as they would now!
>
> Alternatively. Run a nationals every year, however only every other year
will be used for selection - & this particular year, 'pair' flying would be
allowed. Easy.
>
> Why leave 20m class out? We want this class to grow. It wouldn't grow as
fast as it could if it were included at the nats/open comp. Just run it at a
State champs every year, with only the team selection year as the one that
counts.
>
>
> Advantages of having only one big 2wk competition a year...
> * It's only 2wks out of your precious 4wks a year annual leave.
> * Only one lot of organisation people get put out every year. Clubs & the
organisation less likely to get burnt out.
> * State comps, regattas & coaching events will grow: as people will have
an extra 2wks a year to spend how ever they choose.
> * If you're only after team selection, then in the 'off' years, the pilot
could go to the European Gliding Championships, or other European nationals
to get vital experience in helping AUS become a world leader in gliding.
> * More people in towns. Greater support from councils. Greater chance of
major sponsorship (GFA should pay for a dedicated sponsorship & advertiser
of the event - leaving this up to clubs is never going to work, as it hasn't
up to now. Ultimately we don't know what we're doing, & we just don't have
the man power or time to do it now). Greater exposure for gliding in
general.
> * Potentially attract more international competitors due to the amount of
numbers & likely better competition in each class. Which as a result will
make our pilots better. We could advertise it like the 'World Cup' that the
paragliders have. Advertisers & media can spin up & promote it!
> * God forbid, pilots could spend their other 2wks a year having a regular
holiday with their family or friends!!
>
>
> Disadvantages...
> * It's a risk to try it, due unknown amount of competitors that would turn
up. I think, what we're doing now isn't working (for AUS international
results), why not try something new! WA State comps saw great success with
numbers growing once they combined into one big class (Don Woodward said he
'raced' one other competitor in 15m class one year before they changed the
format, that's definitely no fun!).
> * Tugs. This can be fixed if GFA put their hand into their pockets to help
their/our sport grow.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adam Woolley
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