Mike, you are probably referring to the L1 IO rating (which in my opinion should be abolished - why should anyone be responsible for my flying unless I am in training).
The current MOSP says: "13.2 LEVEL 2 'UNRESTRICTED' INDEPENDENT OPERATOR Unlike the Level 1 Independent Operator authority, where club responsibility of independent operations is of primary importance, holders of Level 2 Independent Operator authority are solely responsible for all aspects of their operations when operating independently. This includes airways clearances, tower clearances, SAR notification and accident/incident reporting." To my knowledge it has been like that for many years. I agree with you that the minimum hours for instructor ratings seem low but in practice it requires a lot more hours to gain the abilities and convince the CFIs and L3 instructors to give you an L1 let alone L2 rating. What should the minimum be in your opinion? No matter where you set that it will not be enough for some and increasingly discouraging for others the higher that number is. On the rest, including independent control checks for IOs, I'm also with you although I would choose less GFA-bashing words. Ulrich From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2014 11:07 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes At 11:02 AM 2/09/2014, you wrote: Let's stick to the facts please. A Level 2 Independent Operators Rating does that and with less bureaucracy and overregulation than "in other parts of the world". It is also a product of the GFA - let's acknowledge that. No, you are still under an instructor if one is present, last time I looked. 200 hours? You can get a PPL for powered aircraft in 60 to 70 hours from scratch. You get a bi annual and a medical every two years. Apart from that you are completely free to go wherever and whenever you like with as many people as fit in the aircraft. A shame really that the GPL was not based on the L2 IO rating, perhaps with the bar lowered a little (e.g. reducing the 200hrs requirement - the 100hrs for an L2 instructors rating seem to be sufficient to allow the holder to be responsible for OTHER peoples flying). At least we would not have the current inconsistencies. I cannot imagine that negotiations with CASA would have been any harder on that basis. I consider giving anyone an instructor's rating of any sort with 100 hours an act of gross irresponsibility. I wouldn't let anyone I cared about learn to fly with somebody like that. It will be interesting to see whether the first GPL holder rocking up somewhere in Europe will be allowed to fly without more hassles than European license holders. Maybe EASA will find out the GPL doesn't work back home. As I said before the ICAO deal is that you get the foreign licence on the fact that it is valid at home in your own country. The GFA negotiation with CASA was just a cosy deal to maintain the GFA monopoly on gliding in Australia. "Umbrella" my arse, it is a boot heel. Mike Ulrich -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Future Aviation Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2014 07:08 To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Hi Simon You have raised a very valid point here! I have often wondered why one can have all the qualifications in the world but cannot operate a glider in Australia independently and without instructor oversight. As far as I know Australia is the only first world country that denies their glider pilots privileges that power pilots, parachutists, balloonists or other aviators rightly take for granted. Over the years I have discussed this issue with several GFA officials but I have never been given any reason as to why the current state of affairs exists. Gliding operations based on instructor oversight has now been standard GFA procedure for many decades. Therefore it is quite understandable that allowing a competent and responsible glider pilot to operate without oversight has become a bit too foreign to even contemplate. I'm the first to acknowledge that not everyone aspires to independent operations (or even a licence) and I understand that they can continue to fly as usual. However, I firmly believe that denying suitably qualified glider pilots the right to operate without interference by others is partly to blame for our current woes. When our newcomers realise that they will always be treated as second class aviators we can't blame them when they vote with their feet. Isn't it time that suitably qualified glider pilots are treated just like glider pilots in other parts of the world? As long as our current system denies responsibly acting glider pilots fully independent operations many of them will find less restrictive and more rewarding aviation activities - far too many, if you ask me. Simon, can you (and other members of this newsgroup) let me in on your thinking, please? Kind regards Bernard -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [ mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Simon Hackett Sent: Monday, 1 September 2014 2:39 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Just want to call out one other thing from the thread that I have just had confirmed separately. The Australian CASA Glider Pilot License doesn't allow a pilot to fly a Glider in Australia. SRSLY? Its 2014. Why can't we live in a place where the GFA issues (or authorises) Glider Pilot Licenses for Australian glider pilots to fly Australian Gliders with (including ... in Australia)? I'm not bothered about an underlying requirement to be a GFA member in good standing (or to be separately authorised by CASA) if that floats the GFA's boat. Rather, I'm talking about the crazy notion that the outcome of doing everything right in the GFA system isn't an outcome where one can be a pilot licensed to fly a glider with a license to fly a glider called a Glider Pilot License - and where such a thing now exists but it doesn't actually work in the country of issue. I actually *have* a US glider license of precisely that form (a US pilots license with 'Glider' as an endorsement on it). I don't see that cramping the style of glider pilots in the USA. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm not really interested in how we got precisely here. I'm interested in what possible reason the GFA would have, today, to *not* to support the notion of a Glider Pilot License as something routinely issued to Australians to let them fly gliders in Australia - and for that to be the thing that people get issued with routinely (when, for instance, they achieve Silver C standard). Is there actually a valid reason for this state of affairs (as opposed to 'thats just not how we roll, son...') why this isn't the case - or why it shouldn't become the case? In other words, if I have a CASA issued Glider Pilot License, what, precisely, makes it unable to be sufficient to be permitted to fly a glider here (assuming one has a valid and current flight review)? I apologise for not having (yet) dug up the shiny new 1st September-onward regulations that govern the Glider Pilot License (and as already noted, CASA haven't yet actually published the application form on their web site either). But do those legally engaged regulations actually say that you can't use a Glider Pilot License to... fly a glider with? Coming at this cold, honestly, this reads like a Monty Python script :) Regards, Simon _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
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