Hi Matthew, Greg, and James (AD)*, *James - As the AD, please review and approve of the updated text and removal of the BCP 14 keyword “MUST”.
Original: Post-stack Header (PSH): optional field of interest to the egress Label Switching Router (LSR) (and possibly to transit LSRs). Examples include a control word [RFC4385], [RFC8964] or an associated channel [RFC4385], [RFC5586], [RFC9546]. The PSH MUST indicate its length, so that a parser knows where the embedded packet starts. Current: Post-Stack Header (PSH): A field containing information that may be of interest to the egress Label Switching Router (LSR) or transit LSRs. Examples include a control word [RFC4385] [RFC8964] or an associated channel header [RFC4385] [RFC5586] [RFC9546]. A parser needs to be able to determine where the PSH ends in order to find the embedded packet. See this diff file: https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-ad-diff.html Authors - Thank you for your replies. We have updated as requested. We will await any further changes you may have and approvals from each author and *James prior to moving forward in the publication process. — FILES (please refresh) — Updated XML file: https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.xml Updated output files: https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.txt https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.pdf https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.html Diff file showing all changes made during AUTH48: https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-auth48diff.html https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-auth48rfcdiff.html (side by side) https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-lastdiff.html (htmlwdiff diff between last version and this) https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-lastrfcdiff.html (rfcdiff between last version and this) Diff files showing all changes: https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-diff.html https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-rfcdiff.html (side by side) https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-alt-diff.html (diff showing changes where text is moved or deleted) For the AUTH48 status of this document, please see: https://www.rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9790 Thank you, RFC Editor/ap > On May 19, 2025, at 9:47 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimir...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Rebecca, > I agree with the updates proposed by Matthew. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Mon, May 19, 2025 at 3:17 AM Matthew Bocci (Nokia) > <matthew.bo...@nokia.com> wrote: > Hi Rebecca > Thanks for the updated Auth48 text. I have a couple of comments. > Regards > Matthew > 1. Introduction: > I think PSH in the second sentence should be pluralised: > OLD: > Examples of PSH include existing artifacts such as control words [RFC4385], > BIER (Bit Index Explicit Replication) headers [RFC8296] and the like, as well > as new types of PSH being discussed by the MPLS Working Group. > NEW: > Examples of PSHs include existing artifacts such as control words [RFC4385], > BIER (Bit Index Explicit Replication) headers [RFC8296] and the like, as well > as new types of PSH being discussed by the MPLS Working Group. > 2.1 Definitions: > The definition of PSH is a bit unclear in terms of what it is referring to > for the optional field of interest, and it is also mandates that the PSH must > include a length when in fact most existing PSHs (such as the PW CW or G-ACH) > do not include such a field. I would propose rephrasing to: > OLD: > Post-Stack Header (PSH): > Optional field of interest to the egress Label Switching Router (LSR) (and > possibly to transit LSRs). Examples include a control word [RFC4385] > [RFC8964] or an associated channel [RFC4385] [RFC5586] [RFC9546]. The PSH > MUST indicate its length, so that a parser knows where the embedded packet > starts. > NEW: > Post-Stack Header (PSH): > A field containing information which may be of interest to the egress Label > Switching Router (LSR) or transit LSRs. Examples include a control word > [RFC4385] [RFC8964] or an associated channel header [RFC4385] [RFC5586] > [RFC9546]. A parser needs to be able to determine where the PSH ends in order > to find the embedded packet. > Best regards, > Matthew > From: Rebecca VanRheenen <rvanrhee...@staff.rfc-editor.org> > Date: Thursday, 15 May 2025 at 22:01 > To: Greg Mirsky <gregimir...@gmail.com>, Kireeti Kompella > <kireeti.i...@gmail.com>, Stewart Bryant <s...@stewartbryant.com>, Matthew > Bocci (Nokia) <matthew.bo...@nokia.com>, Jie Dong <jie.d...@huawei.com>, > l...@pi.nu <l...@pi.nu> > Cc: RFC Editor <rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org>, mpls-...@ietf.org > <mpls-...@ietf.org>, MPLS Working Group <mpls-cha...@ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel > <adr...@olddog.co.uk>, James Guichard <james.n.guich...@futurewei.com>, > auth48archive <auth48archive@rfc-editor.org> > Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9790 <draft-ietf-mpls-1stnibble-13> for your > review > [You don't often get email from rvanrhee...@staff.rfc-editor.org. Learn why > this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ] > > CAUTION: This is an external email. Please be very careful when clicking > links or opening attachments. See the URL nok.it/ext for additional > information. > > > > Hi Greg and other authors, > > Greg - Thank you for addressing all of our questions! We have updated the > document accordingly. > > All - Please review the document carefully to ensure satisfaction as we do > not make changes once it has been published as an RFC. Contact us with any > further updates or with your approval of the document in its current form. > We will await approvals from each author prior to moving forward in the > publication process. > > — FILES (please refresh) — > > Updated XML file: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.xml > > Updated output files: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.txt > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.pdf > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790.html > > Diff file showing all changes made during AUTH48: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-auth48diff.html > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-auth48rfcdiff.html (side by > side) > > Diff files showing all changes: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-diff.html > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-rfcdiff.html (side by side) > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9790-alt-diff.html (diff showing > changes where text is moved or deleted) > > For the AUTH48 status of this document, please see: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9790 > > Thank you, > > RFC Editor/rv > > > > > On May 14, 2025, at 4:41 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimir...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Dear RFC Editor, > > thank you for your help in improving this document. Please find my notes > > below tagged GIM>>. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > From: rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org <rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org> > > Date: Wednesday, 14 May 2025 at 05:24 > > To: kireeti.i...@gmail.com <kireeti.i...@gmail.com>, s...@stewartbryant.com > > <s...@stewartbryant.com>, Matthew Bocci (Nokia) <matthew.bo...@nokia.com>, > > gregimir...@gmail.com <gregimir...@gmail.com>, l...@pi.nu <l...@pi.nu>, > > jie.d...@huawei.com <jie.d...@huawei.com> > > Cc: rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org <rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org>, > > mpls-...@ietf.org <mpls-...@ietf.org>, mpls-cha...@ietf.org > > <mpls-cha...@ietf.org>, adr...@olddog.co.uk <adr...@olddog.co.uk>, > > james.n.guich...@futurewei.com <james.n.guich...@futurewei.com>, > > auth48archive@rfc-editor.org <auth48archive@rfc-editor.org> > > Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9790 <draft-ietf-mpls-1stnibble-13> for your > > review > > > > CAUTION: This is an external email. Please be very careful when clicking > > links or opening attachments. See the URL nok.it/ext for additional > > information. > > > > > > > > Authors, > > > > While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as necessary) > > the following questions, which are also in the XML file. > > > > 1) <!-- [rfced] Please note that the abbreviated title of the document has > > been > > updated as follows. The abbreviated title only appears in the running > > header in the pdf output. > > > > Original: > > 1st nibble > > > > Current: > > First Nibble Following Label Stack > > GIM>> Thank you; I agree. > > --> > > > > > > 2) <!-- [rfced] Please insert any keywords (beyond those that appear in > > the title) for use on https://www.rfc-editor.org/search. --> > > GIM>> Perhaps > > Post-stack header > > Load-balancing > > > > > > 3) <!-- [rfced] Please clarify "in the context associated". Note that there > > is a similar sentence in the IANA section. > > > > Original: > > Although some existing network > > devices may use such a method, it needs to be stressed that the > > correct interpretation of the Post-stack First Nibble (PFN) in a PSH > > can be made only in the context associated using the control or > > management plane with the Label Stack Element (LSE) or group of LSEs > > in the preceding label stack that characterize the type of the PSH, > > and that any attempt to rely on the value in any other context is > > unreliable. > > > > Perhaps: > > Although some existing network > > devices may use such a method, it needs to be stressed that the > > correct interpretation of the Post-stack First Nibble (PFN) in a PSH > > can be made only in the context of using the control or > > management plane with the Label Stack Entry (LSE) or group of LSEs > > in the preceding label stack that characterizes the type of the PSH. > > Any attempt to rely on the value in any other context is > > unreliable. > > > > Or (similar to sentence in IANA section): > > Although some existing network > > devices may use such a method, it needs to be stressed that the > > correct interpretation of the Post-stack First Nibble (PFN) in a PSH > > can be made only in the context of the Label Stack Entry (LSE) or group > > of LSEs > > in the preceding label stack that characterizes the type of the PSH. > > Any attempt to rely on the value in any other context is > > unreliable. > > GIM>> Thank you for your creative options. I will propose another > > re-wording using the first option with s/of using/established through/: > > Although some existing network > > devices may use such a method, it needs to be stressed that the > > correct interpretation of the Post-stack First Nibble (PFN) in a PSH > > can be made only in the context established through the control or > > management plane with the Label Stack Entry (LSE) or group of LSEs > > in the preceding label stack that characterizes the type of the PSH. > > Any attempt to rely on the value in any other context is > > unreliable. --> > > > > > > 4) <!-- [rfced] How may we update the text starting with "including..." to > > improve clarity? > > > > Original: > > * To stress the importance that any MPLS packet not carrying plain > > IPv4 or IPv6 packets contains a PSH, including any new version of > > IP (Section 2.4). > > > > Perhaps: > > * To stress that any MPLS packet not carrying plain > > IPv4 or IPv6 packets contains a PSH. This also applies to packets of > > any new version of IP (see Section 2.4). > > GIM>> Excellent! I agree. > > --> > > > > > > 5) <!-- [rfced] The sentences below are from the last two paragraphs of > > Section 1. > > In the first sentence, will readers understand what is meant by "the > > heuristic"? Would it be helpful to add more context, like that included > > in the second sentence? > > > > Original: > > Based on the analysis of load-balancing techniques in Section 2.1.1, > > this document, in Section 2.1.1.1, introduces a requirement that > > deprecates the use of the heuristic and recommends using a dedicated > > label value for load balancing. > > ... > > Furthermore, this document updates [RFC4928] by deprecating the > > heuristic method for identifying the type of packet encapsulated in > > MPLS. > > > > Perhaps: > > Section 2.1.1 of this document includes an analysis of load-balancing > > techniques; based on this, Section 2.1.1.1 introduces a requirement > > that deprecates the use of the heuristic method for identifying the type > > of packet encapsulated in MPLS and recommends using a > > dedicated label value for load balancing. > > ... > > Furthermore, this document updates [RFC4928] by deprecating this > > heuristic method. > > GIM>> I like the proposed update of the first paragraph. Since it is > > followed by two sentences, would "this heuristic method" reference be clear > > to a reader? Would keeping that part unchanged be acceptable? > > --> > > > > > > 6) <!-- [rfced] Would you like to alphabetize the list of abbreviations in > > Section 1.3 > > ("Abbreviations")? Or do you prefer the current order? > > > > Similarly, would you like to alphabetize the terms in Section 1.2 > > ("Definitions") or keep the current order? > > GIM>> Yes, alphabetize them, please. > > --> > > > > > > 7) <!-- [rfced] We updated this text as shown below. Specifically, we moved > > the > > third sentence of the first paragraph to follow the list and updated "A." > > to read "Example A:". Let us know any concerns. > > > > Original: > > Figure 1 shows an MPLS packet with Layer 2 header X and a label stack > > Y ending with Label-n. Then, there are three examples of an MPLS > > payload displayed in Figure 2. The complete MPLS packet thus would > > consist of [X Y A], or [X Y B], or [X Y C]. > > > > A. The first payload is a bare IP packet, i.e., no PSH. The PFN in > > this case overlaps with the IP version number. > > > > B. The next payload is a bare non-IP packet; again, no PSH. The PFN > > here is the first nibble of the payload, whatever it happens to be. > > > > C. The last example is an MPLS Payload that starts with a PSH > > followed by the embedded packet. Here, the embedded packet could be > > IP or non-IP. > > > > Updated: > > Figure 1 shows an MPLS packet with a Layer 2 header X and a label stack > > Y ending with Label-n. Figure 2 displays three examples of an > > MPLS payload: > > > > Example A: The first payload is a bare IP packet, i.e., no PSH. The > > PFN in this case overlaps with the IP version number. > > > > Example B: The next payload is a bare non-IP packet; again, no PSH. > > The PFN here is the first nibble of the payload, whatever it > > happens to be. > > > > Example C: This example is an MPLS Payload that starts with a PSH > > followed by the embedded packet. Here, the embedded packet could > > be IP or non-IP. > > > > Thus, the complete MPLS packet would consist of [X Y A], [X Y B], or > > [X Y C]. > > GIM>> Thank you for your updates that improve readability of the document. > > --> > > > > > > 8) <!-- [rfced] For readability, may we update this list as follows? > > > > Original: > > There are four common ways to load balance an MPLS packet: > > > > 1. One can use the top label alone. > > > > 2. One can do better by using all of the non-SPLs (Special Purpose > > Labels) [RFC7274] in the stack. > > > > 3. One can do even better by "divining" the type of embedded packet, > > and using fields from the guessed header. The ramifications of > > using this load-balancing technique are discussed in detail in > > Section 2.1.1.1. > > > > 4. One can do best by using either an Entropy Label [RFC6790] or a > > Flow-Aware Transport (FAT) Pseudowire Label [RFC6391] (see > > Section 2.1.1.1). > > > > Perhaps: > > There are four common ways to load balance an MPLS packet: > > > > 1. Use the top label alone. > > > > 2. Use all of the non-SPLs (Special Purpose > > Labels) [RFC7274] in the stack. This is better than using the > > top label alone. > > > > 3. Divine the type of embedded packet > > and use fields from the guessed header. The ramifications of > > using this load-balancing technique are discussed in detail in > > Section 2.1.1.1. This way is better than the two ways above. > > > > 4. Use either an Entropy Label [RFC6790] or a > > Flow-Aware Transport (FAT) Pseudowire Label [RFC6391] (see > > Section 2.1.1.1). This is the best way. > > GIM>> I agree with the proposed updates with a suggestion to maintain > > quotation marks as "divine". > > --> > > > > > > 9) <!-- [rfced] Would including some text to introduce the numbered list in > > Section 2.1.1.1 be helpful? If so, please provide the text. > > GIM>> I think that the current text is sufficient but I am open to any text > > other authors propose. > > --> > > > > > > 10) <!-- [rfced] Would it be helpful to update "Support for" to "The > > framework > > for" in this sentence? > > > > Original: > > Support for MPLS Network Actions (MNAs) is described in > > [I-D.ietf-mpls-mna-fwk] and is an enhancement to the MPLS > > architecture. > > > > Perhaps: > > The framework for MPLS Network Actions (MNAs) is described in [RFC9789] > > and > > is an enhancement to the MPLS architecture. > > GIM>> I agree with the proposed change. > > --> > > > > > > 11) <!-- [rfced] This sentence notes that the PFN value of 0x0 has two > > different > > formats, but the IANA registry in Section 3 lists the value 0x0 three > > times. Please review and let us know if any updates are needed. > > > > Original: > > This issue is described in section 3.6.1 of [I-D.ietf-mpls-mna-fwk] > > and is further illustrated by the PFN value of 0x0 which has two > > different formats depending on whether the PSH is a pseudowire > > control word or a DetNet control word ... > > GIM>> Your observation is correct. Value 0x0 is used by three services that > > are listed in the IANA registry in Section 3. But two of these services use > > four-octet long format, while one - eight-octet long format. Thus, three > > entries in the registry but only two formats. > > --> > > > > > > 12) <!-- [rfced] How may we clarify "leading to [RFC4928]"? > > > > Original: > > It was then discovered that > > non-IP packets, misidentified as IP when the heuristic failed, were > > being badly load balanced, leading to [RFC4928]. > > > > Perhaps: > > It was then discovered that > > non-IP packets, misidentified as IP when the heuristic failed, were > > being badly load-balanced, leading to the scenario described in > > [RFC4928]. > > GIM>> Thank you for your creative editing! I agree with the proposed update. > > --> > > > > > > 13) <!-- [rfced] What does "it" refer to here? > > > > Original: > > It would assist with the progress toward a simpler, more coherent > > system of MPLS data encapsulation if the use a PSH for non-IP > > payloads encapsulated in MPLS was obsoleted. > > > > Perhaps: > > If the use a PSH for non-IP > > payloads encapsulated in MPLS were obsoleted, this would assist with > > the progress toward a simpler, more coherent > > system of MPLS data encapsulation > > > > Or: > > Obsoleting the use a PSH for non-IP > > payloads encapsulated in MPLS would assist with the progress toward a > > simpler, more coherent > > system of MPLS data encapsulation. > > GIM>> Thank you for proposing two excellent options.I slightly prefer the > > second with a minor modification (two options ;-) : > > s/the use a PSH/the use of a PSH/ or s/the use a PSH/using a PSH/ > > --> > > > > > > 14) <!-- [rfced] Please review "to load-balancing MPLS data flows". Should > > the > > "load balance" be used instead of the "load-balancing"? Or > > is the current correct? > > > > Original: > > However, before that > > can be done, it is important to collect sufficient evidence that > > there are no marketed or deployed implementations using the heuristic > > practice to load-balancing MPLS data flows. > > > > Perhaps: > > However, before that > > can be done, it is important to collect sufficient evidence that > > there are no marketed or deployed implementations using the heuristic > > practice to load balance MPLS data flows. > > GIM>> I think that the current form is acceptable. What do other authors > > think? > > --> > > > > > > 15) <!-- [rfced] We removed the expansion "Network Service Header" in Table > > 1 as > > this is expanded previously in the document. If no objections, we will > > ask IANA to update the "Post-Stack First Nibble" registry accordingly > > prior to publication. > > > > Link to registry: > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iana.org%2Fassignments%2Fpost-stack-first-nibble&data=05%7C02%7Cmatthew.bocci%40nokia.com%7C8f9821d8e9c94a4affb208dd93f38fd0%7C5d4717519675428d917b70f44f9630b0%7C0%7C0%7C638829396764446385%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gz3KCSRJkFUXqjZhW6jTKBtAxqfOPeeoJY0WaeOwpIk%3D&reserved=0 > > > > Original: > > | NSH | 0x0 | NSH (Network Service Header) > > | | | Base Header, payload > > > > Current: > > | NSH | 0x0 | NSH Base Header, paylod > > GIM>> I agree; your update makes the table easier to read. > > --> > > > > > > 16) <!-- [rfced] Abbreviations > > > > a) FYI - We updated the expansion for LSE as follows to align with the > > expansion used in RFCs-to-be 9789 and 9791. Also, "Label Stack Element" has > > not been used in published RFCs. > > > > Original: > > Label Stack Element > > > > Updated: > > Label Stack Entry > > GIM>> Great catch, thank you. I agree. > > > > > > b) FYI - We have added expansions for the following abbreviations > > per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 ("RFC Style Guide"). Please review each > > expansion in the document carefully to ensure correctness. > > > > Deterministic Networking (DetNet) > > Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) > > Media Access Control (MAC) > > GIM>> Thank you for your thorough work with the document. I agree. > > --> > > > > > > 17) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the > > online > > Style Guide > > <https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/#inclusive_language> > > and let us know if any changes are needed. Updates of this nature typically > > result in more precise language, which is helpful for readers. > > > > Note that our script did not flag any words in particular, but this should > > still be reviewed as a best practice. > > GIM>> Thank you for checking that. I couldn't find anything that raises a > > red flag. > > --> > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > RFC Editor/rv > > > > > > > > On May 13, 2025, at 9:19 PM, rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org wrote: > > > > *****IMPORTANT***** > > > > Updated 2025/05/13 > > > > RFC Author(s): > > -------------- > > > > Instructions for Completing AUTH48 > > > > Your document has now entered AUTH48. 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Kompella, S. Bryant, M. Bocci, G. Mirsky, L. > > Andersson, J. Dong > > WG Chair(s) : Tarek Saad, Tony Li, Adrian Farrel > > > > Area Director(s) : Jim Guichard, Ketan Talaulikar, Gunter Van de Velde -- auth48archive mailing list -- auth48archive@rfc-editor.org To unsubscribe send an email to auth48archive-le...@rfc-editor.org