Hi,
Considering I am working at same problem (but from other end) I like the
idea. There is a few issues I see jumping out though.
>From comments made by JDD (ex-PMC head), the presence of alternate licensed
code in CVS is fine, even if copyright is not owned by Apache. The one
proviso is that Apache members must not be modifying that code (The only
example cases I know of include the jaxp/sax classes which are either
copyright sun or in public domain). I am not sure if that is edified
anywhere but in the worst case you could host the BSD interface layer
elsewhere and just use it from ASLed code.
The real issue is whether jesktop is in scope. A while back jakarta was
declared out of scope as it had things like oro, regex, ant in it which
were not part of the charter. There was a few proposed solutions; widen
scope of jakarta to include tools, split jakarta into sites like
* tools.apache.org (ant/oro/regex/log4j)
* frameworks.apache.org (avalon/turbine/struts)
...
The choice was made to widen scope to "server and server support". There
was also discussion about where the future lies. I listed a whole bunch of
things I wanted to see at jakarta but nothing much has happened. There are
those who like the idea of a more controlled "JakartaForge" but then there
are those that hate it (they term it dumping ground). (I personally think
that a JakartaForge with proper controls on growth would be beneficial).
jesktop as it stands is out of scope. The question is - would the PMC
change the scope for you? and would the foundation let them? The answer: I
don't know ;) Even if they did decide to change the scope I think it would
be a gradual thing, so it would take time (and probably a fair bit of effort).
I guess you will never know untill you ask.
At 12:09 AM 6/8/01 +0100, Paul Hammant wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Not everyone's idea of a sane server application, but Jesktop (to remind
people) is a server app
>that sits on top of Avalon/phoenix. Sane so far, yes, insane in that it
is a layer that performs
>the functions of a desktop operating system.
>
>It's been my intention all along to give it to Apache when it reaches a
level of maturity. It is
>kinda close.
>
>Jesktop grants multi hot-installable applications the ability to sit
inside one VM and co-exist in
>in the same GUI space, but under separate classloaders. Themes can be set
for all apps (Decorator
>concept), a mime registry has been started, there is abstractions for
types of containment
>(JFrames versus JInternalFrames).
>
>The core code is Apache license. The interfaces are BSD. The reason for
BSD is simple - I have
>ported a number of applications to Jesktop from the open source community
and some of them are
>GPL. To not break their licenses (any further than the original authors
have done - ho ho), I
>have used BSD as it's approved both by Apache and by the FSF. That
situations not ideal as I'd
>like to have made the licenses Apache throughout. I still could of course
as it's all my work.
>
>As I say I am in a position soon enough to donate what I can to Apache
(and still continue with it
>myself). Questions, would the PMC say yes (they are not allergic to GUI
apps are they)? What
>should I do with the interfaces? Leave them as BSD, move them to Apache
license (and damn the
>consequences to the GPL ported apps that import them)?
>
>It might also be nice to know what I have done by way of ports:
>
> * Batik - the xml.apache.org GUI tool
> * Horstscape (a browser with a commercial widget for rendering HTML)
> * Beanshell - full scripting/command line env, with dynamic java
capability. V cool.
> * XBrowser - the GPL HTML Browser
> * TextPad - GPL text editor
> * Demos (various hacky gui demos of mixed license)
> * Skin Look and Feel (Apache clone license) - as a Decorator
> - this allows all hosted apps to look like Mac, Windows, Beos, Mozilla
etc.
> * OYOAHA (decorator too, with commercial but free look/widget)
> * JPad - Text editor - GPL
> * Jipe - IDE (non compiling) - GPL
> * JTetris - Game - free
> * JFileManager - as it says
> * JCDSee - graphics browser - GPL
> * JarUtil (winzip alike) Apache license
> * Apps (clock, image viewer etc)
>
>Porting apps has become quite boring. It's a way for me to avoid the nitty
gritty of making the
>core code better and completing the partially done bits....
>
>To recap, all can run at the same time. Jesktop can run alongside James,
Cornerstone demos, other
>SAR aplications. It has a pluggable window manager scheme (two Windows
variants so far, Amiga,
>Mac to do).
>
>I think it would be a worthy project for Apache, and with Avalon itself,
could become ApacheOS
>(forgetting for a min the underlying JDK).
>
>Jesktop itself is hosted at www.jesktop.org (down for a day or two while I
rebuild). The ported
>apps (of whichever license) are hosted at www.jesktop.net (also down).
>
>How to proceed?
>
>Could I gather some thoughts from those Avalon fans here before I go to
the Jon Stevens & the PMC
>?
>
>Regards,
>
>- Paul H
>
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Cheers,
Pete
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| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof." |
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