Jr,
Sim, assim como a primeira certidão de casamento de Manoel da Costa Carreiro e Izabel da Costa. Contudo, o que me intriga? 1- Não há registro de nascimento de qualquer outro filho do casal Manoel da Costa e Bárbara da Ponte. Mesmo considerando que o primeiro registro de nascimento disponível em Maia seja de 1665, imaginando que Manoel nasceu por volta de 1655. 2- Não há registro de qualquer outro casamento de eventuais filhos que o casal Manoel da Costa e Bárbara da Ponte possam ter tido, o que obrigatoriamente indica: a) Eles não tiveram mais filhos (o que poderia ser confirmado pela ausência de registro de nascimentos)-Acho uma hipótese muito improvável para a época; b) Eles tiveram filhos, mas nenhum dos demais filhos se casou- o que me parece igualmente improvável; 3- Não há registro de óbito de Bárbara da Ponte 4- Não há registro de óbito confiável de Manoel da Costa. Há um único registro, em 02/10/1698, que eu tenho usado como base de referência, de um Manoel da Costa, falecido, mas que o cura da época não registrou, como era costume, se ele era solteiro ou viúvo e de quem ele era viúvo, e nem a idade provável que o defunto teria. 5- Não há registro de eventual segundo casamento de Manoel da Costa após eventual morte de sua mulher, Bárbara da Ponte. Então, o que há de registro em Maia são apenas duas certidões de casamento de seu filho Manoel da Costa Carreiro, a primeira com Izabel da Costa e a segunda com Maria Ferreira, casamento esse, aliás, que se deu pouquíssimo tempo depois da morte da primeira mulher, o que para mim não é estranho, porque notei que homens viúvos não permaneciam viúvos de modo algum. Outra coisa que notei, é que certas freguesias tem preferências por alguns nomes de mulheres. Emília, por exemplo, você não encontra muitas Emílias por ai. Mas em Rosto do Cão vocês as encontra em grande número. E eu percebi isso porque leio muitos e muitos registros em minhas pesquisas, e uma de minhas ancestrais, Emília Júlia Carreiro, é de Rosto do Cão. Quando fui procura-la, por ser um nome "incomum", pensei que a encontraria logo, mas não foi assim, havia muitas e muitas Emílias ali. Bárbara parece ser um desses casos em Ribeira Seca. Como último fato, Manoel da Costa Carreiro, descendente dos dois Manoéis sobre quem falamos até agora, casou-se em Ribeira Seca em 1710, com Maria da Ressurreição. Será que ele não teria primos, ou algo que o levassem até lá. Primeiro, quero confessar que me frustraria muito chegar ao fim da minha linhagem masculina e não conseguir avançar por conta de não haver mais documentos, mas foi a mesma frustração que senti ao ver que minha linhagem masculina não é Pimentel, como pensei que fosse. Mas de um modo ou de outro, a delícia do que fazemos me parece que é justamente isso, pesquisar, levantar hipóteses, testá-las e ir compreendendo o mundo em que viveram nossos antepassados, porque senão, nós seríamos meros colecionadores de nomes. Estou fazendo pesquisas na Ribeira Seca ao invés de seguir em Maia, primeiro, porque ali não encontrarei respostas, e em segundo lugar, porque construí uma hipótese que me parece plausível. Se conseguir avançar em algo, conto para vocês. Um abraço, Cesar Pimentel [email protected] Jr, Yes, just as the first marriage certificate of Manoel da Costa Carreiro and Isabel da Costa. However, what intrigues me? 1- There is no record of the birth of any child of the couple Manoel da Costa and Barbara da Ponte . Even though the first record of birth is available in Maya 1665, imagining that Manoel was born around 1655. 2- There is the record of any marriage of any children the couple Manoel da Costa and Barbara da Costa may have had , Which must Indicate : a) They did not have more children ( Which Could be confirmed by the absence of registration of births )- I think a very unlikely hypothesis for the time ; b ) They had children, but none of the children is casou- Which seems equally unlikely ; 3- There is no Barbara death record 4- There is no record of reliable death of Manoel da Costa. There is a single record , on 10/02/1698 , which I have used as a reference base, of Manoel da Costa , who died , but that the curing time not recorded , as was the custom , if he was single or widowed and whom he was a widower , nor the probable age that the deceased would have . 5- There is no any record second marriage of Manoel da Costa after eventual death of his wife, Barbara da Ponte. So what's record in Maia are only two marriage certificates of his son Manoel da Costa Carreiro, the first with Izabel da Costa and the second with Maria Ferreira, marriage this, moreover, that took little time after the death of first woman, which to me is not strange, because I noticed that widowers remained widowers not at all. Another thing; I noticed is that some parishes have preferences for some women's names. Emilia, for example, you do not find many Emilias around. But in Rosto do Cão you find them in large numbers. And I realized that because I read many, many records in my research, and one of my ancestors, Emilia Julia Carreiro, is Rosto do Cão. When I was looking for it, being a name "unusual", I thought I would find her soon, but it did not, there were many, many Emilias there. Barbara seems to be a case in Ribeira Seca. As last fact, Manuel Carreiro da Costa, a descendant of the two Manoéis about who we talked to now, married in Ribeira Seca in 1710, with Maria da Ressurreição. Does not he have cousins or something to take him there? First, I must confess that frustrate me a lot to get to the end of my male line, and are unable to move forward because there are no more documents, but it was the same frustration I felt seeing my male line is not Pimentel, as I thought it was. But in one way or another, the delight of what we do seems to me that 's just it , search, hypotheses , test them and go understanding the world in which our ancestors lived, because otherwise, we would be mere collectors names. I am doing research in Ribeira Seca instead of following in Maia , first , because there will not find answers , and secondly , because it built a hypothesis that seems plausible. If you can move something, to tell you. A hug, Cesar Pimentel [email protected] ________________________________ De: JR <[email protected]> Enviado: terça-feira, 12 de julho de 2016 06:27 Para: Azores Genealogy Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Assunto: Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte O segundo casamento de Manoel da Costa a Maria Ferreira, agosto 26- 1702, diz que nubentes foram batizados em Maia, " Onde os contrahentes foi baptizados. " The second marriage of Manoel da Costa to Maria Ferreira, Aug 26- 1702, says both newllyweds were baptised in Maia, "onde os contrahentes foi baptizados." http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704/SMG-RG-MAIA-C-1674-1704_item1/P73.html JR On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 6:45:04 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote: Yes JR, is what I'm doing, because there is no death of any child of this couple in Maya, or the death of Barbara da Ponte and there is no reliable death of Manoel da Costa also. Another thing; I noticed is that with regard to female names, certain parishes prefer one to another . For example , Emilia. Where I found many Emilias ? In Rosto do Cão, where he sought my ancestress Emilia. Barbara and Agada seems to be a preference of Ribeira Seca. I tell you if successful. Hugs! Cesar Pimentel [email protected] ________________________________ De: JR <[email protected]> Enviado: domingo, 10 de julho de 2016 18:33 Para: Azores Genealogy Cc: [email protected] Assunto: Re: Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) e Bárbara da Ponte The Pontes of Maia are most likely related to the Pontes of Ribeira Grande and may even originate there. The Ponte Vidals of Maia almost certainly originate in Ribeira Grande and go back to pre-1600. But this is difficult to prove definitively. When it come to end of line ancestors (end of records), we all face the same situation. We cannot go back any further. There are many examples where it appears a couple have only one surviving child. Because we may find one marriage. But my experience is that they usually had many children but only one survived and married, or we have no further information to link other people. Your only available choice is to look in Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca where there are pre-1660 baptisms. It is possible they lived in said places and eventually settled in Maia. In said villages, you will see a some references to Ribeirinha, a small villa just outside the main village. But there are no separate records for the older period of pre-1700, so again you have to look in Ribeira Grande or Ribeira Seca records. JR On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 8:07:25 PM UTC-4, Cesar Pimentel wrote: Hello guys, Thus it is that down the couple Manoel da Costa (Carreiro) and Barbara da Ponte. The difficulty in moving beyond this couple is that I have wanted for his life in Maia, and the earliest record of birth available there is 1665. Well, here comes my doubts. I also found the death of Manoel da Costa, Miller, occurred on 10/02/1698 in Maia, and that death is said that Manoel was buried in the grave of his father, Gaspar Lourensso (written with two "s" there ). But how to make sure that this Manoel da Costa is even Manoel da Costa father of Manoel da Costa Carreiro and would have been married to Barbara da Costa? I noticed a funny thing. I looked ALL marriages registered in Maia, I began searching for a possible second marriage of Manoel da Costa, to see if, seeking in deaths, could find a death some Manoel someone widower, I would not have noticed, but what really got me It caught my attention is that in addition to her son's wedding, Manoel da Costa Carreiro with Izabel da Costa and then Maria Ferreira, there is no other wedding any other son of Manuel and Barbara. It is not strange that? In those years an only child. Reviewing Manoel marriage certificate Carreiro da Costa with Izabel da Costa, it is said that all were Maia, but in fact, the wording is ambiguous, may or may not be all but a few. Is it not possible, in my view, that seek birth more children couple Manuel and Barbara Maia because the records do not make possible, but weddings, ah, that if there were, it would appear. For now, my conclusion is that Manuel and Barbara couple did not live in Maia, but in some other place, and that would explain even not find even Barbara's death record , which will not found it. It's more or less what I wanted to share with you to start our conversation. A hug and be happy to know it. Cesar Pimentel [email protected] -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
