Cher, Liz the date at the of the left pg is the date the notary (lawyer) set in his home to take the father's deposition who out of his own conscience was assuming Manuel as his son with all the legal rights of any son. There are no hints of age. I've seen this happen some times 12 - 20 years after the birth date.
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 12:18 AM Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: > They said 16 Sept 1884 about 4 or 5 times (and one time it was 1884 and > 4)! That date was a big deal! > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Liz Migliori <[email protected]> wrote: > > But it doesn't give any hint of age or year of birth? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 9, 2016, at 8:09 PM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: > > You still need to find the baptism. > > A legitimization legitimizes the kid. The father comes forward and says > he's the dad (or in the case of pais incognitos, both parents come > forward). I'll try, but I'm not fluent and I've never trained myself to > read these. > > It starts out 31 Dec 1884 at Sao Joao Batista church in Lajes do Pico, > says Manuel Goulart Martins, married, mariner, living in this freguesia, in > a public declaration/proclamation, that he acknowledges/recognizes Manuel, > son of Perpetua da Conceicao, single, of this freguesia, and that the > following proclamation was made: Manuel Goulart Martins, single, mariner, > living in the freguesia of Sao Joao, on the 16 September 1884 ....I lose > part of it here then In the year birth of our Lord Jesus Christ of 1884 (I > think they wrote that year enough times already!) on the 16 day of the > month of September of the current year in this village of Lajes do Pico, > and the house of Antonio Homem da Costa ....I lose part of it here. I think > I see the word "found" "witnesses" "end of this assigned???" Manuel Goulart > Martins, single, of major age, maritime, living in the freguesia of Sao > Joao (geez, how much vinho did this guy have???) son of Manuel Goulart > Martins and of his wife Maria Francesca, both deceased, natives of the > freguesia of Sao Joao, of whom I knew properly?? of the faith?? (that word > is faith)...something about witnesses. They were present, the same > witnesses, something something Manuel Goulart Martins something something > something the son Manuel, single, son natural of Perpetua da Conceicao and > of pai incognito...godfather Jose Ignacio Martins, married, treasurer, > living in the something freguesia, and godmother the invocation of Our > Lady. Then something about the parish record declared Manuel was the son of > pai incognito (uhhh, they opened another bottle of wine)....I lose it > again. I see "declare that he and his son" ...I think he says again Manuel > is his son. Then something about Manuel, his son, uses two surnames > ...something then they have all the rights that they read of the king (huh > what?) something sons/children...Something authority of the faith (???) > .....ratified....assigned.......witnesses Antonio Homem Costa and Manuel > Leal de Brum, single, something something, living in this referenced Vila, > of whom I know, Thome Cardoza de Simas Machado e Mello something public of > notes (a notary?) It goes on again with the names, they attest to the > truth, they paid the stamps of 1000 reis (unit of money) and another of ___ > reis (had to do with 15/50?), something 16 September 1884 and 4 and Mello > (OK, now I need a bottle of wine). Something .. more or less of the said > something..actual book of notes, number 25 ... conferred it was true > without cause...two half pages of paper ...something something Simas. In > this village of Lajes do Pico on the 16 day of September 1884 (they must > have had a good crop of grapes). I Thome Cardozo de Simas Machado e Mello > ....he blabs some more and says his name again. I think you get the gist. > Manuel Goulart Martins signs at the end. > > Now I think I need some wine! LOL, just kidding. The native speakers are > laughing hysterically! > Cheri > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Elizabeth Migliori <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I believe it is my great grandmother's son. I have been trying to find > his birth/baptism record. I'm not sure I understand a legitimization. > Who would be making him Legitimate? Is someone adopting him? If he was > Pai incognito then how does he get Legitimate? > The mother's and neta materna names match. > I can send it to Joao if it's to much I understand. I thought I would try > here first. > > Thx > Liz > > On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: > > You know this is a legitimization right? Is that what you are after? A > Manuel born to pai incognito? I don't want to translate it if you didn't > mean to be in the legitimizations. What info can you read and what info do > you need from it? > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Migliori <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-SAOJOAO-L-1884-1884/PIC-LJ-SAOJOAO-L-1884-1884_item1/P5.html > > Would someone please translate this doc for me... Manuel left side half > way down but then goes to next page. > > Thank you in advance > > Liz > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. 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