Thanks for this info. I think I hooked him up with his baptism. Truly wish everyone in the US knew of this. Liz
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 6:58 AM, Margaret Vicente <[email protected] > wrote: > Cher, Liz the date at the of the left pg is the date the notary (lawyer) > set in his home to take the father's deposition who out of his own > conscience was assuming Manuel as his son with all the legal rights of any > son. There are no hints of age. I've seen this happen some times 12 - 20 > years after the birth date. > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 12:18 AM Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: > >> They said 16 Sept 1884 about 4 or 5 times (and one time it was 1884 and >> 4)! That date was a big deal! >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Liz Migliori <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> But it doesn't give any hint of age or year of birth? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 9, 2016, at 8:09 PM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> You still need to find the baptism. >> >> A legitimization legitimizes the kid. The father comes forward and says >> he's the dad (or in the case of pais incognitos, both parents come >> forward). I'll try, but I'm not fluent and I've never trained myself to >> read these. >> >> It starts out 31 Dec 1884 at Sao Joao Batista church in Lajes do Pico, >> says Manuel Goulart Martins, married, mariner, living in this freguesia, in >> a public declaration/proclamation, that he acknowledges/recognizes Manuel, >> son of Perpetua da Conceicao, single, of this freguesia, and that the >> following proclamation was made: Manuel Goulart Martins, single, mariner, >> living in the freguesia of Sao Joao, on the 16 September 1884 ....I lose >> part of it here then In the year birth of our Lord Jesus Christ of 1884 (I >> think they wrote that year enough times already!) on the 16 day of the >> month of September of the current year in this village of Lajes do Pico, >> and the house of Antonio Homem da Costa ....I lose part of it here. I think >> I see the word "found" "witnesses" "end of this assigned???" Manuel Goulart >> Martins, single, of major age, maritime, living in the freguesia of Sao >> Joao (geez, how much vinho did this guy have???) son of Manuel Goulart >> Martins and of his wife Maria Francesca, both deceased, natives of the >> freguesia of Sao Joao, of whom I knew properly?? of the faith?? (that word >> is faith)...something about witnesses. They were present, the same >> witnesses, something something Manuel Goulart Martins something something >> something the son Manuel, single, son natural of Perpetua da Conceicao and >> of pai incognito...godfather Jose Ignacio Martins, married, treasurer, >> living in the something freguesia, and godmother the invocation of Our >> Lady. Then something about the parish record declared Manuel was the son of >> pai incognito (uhhh, they opened another bottle of wine)....I lose it >> again. I see "declare that he and his son" ...I think he says again Manuel >> is his son. Then something about Manuel, his son, uses two surnames >> ...something then they have all the rights that they read of the king (huh >> what?) something sons/children...Something authority of the faith (???) >> .....ratified....assigned.......witnesses Antonio Homem Costa and Manuel >> Leal de Brum, single, something something, living in this referenced Vila, >> of whom I know, Thome Cardoza de Simas Machado e Mello something public of >> notes (a notary?) It goes on again with the names, they attest to the >> truth, they paid the stamps of 1000 reis (unit of money) and another of ___ >> reis (had to do with 15/50?), something 16 September 1884 and 4 and Mello >> (OK, now I need a bottle of wine). Something .. more or less of the said >> something..actual book of notes, number 25 ... conferred it was true >> without cause...two half pages of paper ...something something Simas. In >> this village of Lajes do Pico on the 16 day of September 1884 (they must >> have had a good crop of grapes). I Thome Cardozo de Simas Machado e Mello >> ....he blabs some more and says his name again. I think you get the gist. >> Manuel Goulart Martins signs at the end. >> >> Now I think I need some wine! LOL, just kidding. The native speakers are >> laughing hysterically! >> Cheri >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Elizabeth Migliori <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I believe it is my great grandmother's son. I have been trying to find >> his birth/baptism record. I'm not sure I understand a legitimization. >> Who would be making him Legitimate? Is someone adopting him? If he was >> Pai incognito then how does he get Legitimate? >> The mother's and neta materna names match. >> I can send it to Joao if it's to much I understand. I thought I would >> try here first. >> >> Thx >> Liz >> >> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> You know this is a legitimization right? Is that what you are after? A >> Manuel born to pai incognito? I don't want to translate it if you didn't >> mean to be in the legitimizations. What info can you read and what info do >> you need from it? >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Elizabeth Migliori <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC- >> LJ-SAOJOAO-L-1884-1884/PIC-LJ-SAOJOAO-L-1884-1884_item1/P5.html >> >> Would someone please translate this doc for me... Manuel left side half >> way down but then goes to next page. >> >> Thank you in advance >> >> Liz >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. 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