Wow 😳 Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: > > Assumption is a dangerous thing in genealogy! > > The confession rolls are supposed to be at the original church. Do they all > exist? Probably not. How far back do they go? I've seen them to the 1800s. I > don't know if they go back to the 1700s or not. I haven't seen any. > > Then there's something going on with the Sao Jorge confession rolls. I didn't > understand what Jeremy meant last night (looooong day) and I was trying to > playfully tease him, but he took it the wrong way and I made him mad. Sorry!! > He tried to send me a link for something on the mainland, but the Google > Group blocks me from the link. So I still don't understand why Sao Jorge > island has no confessional rolls on the CCA when Joao Ventura, the archivist, > who was in charge of the scanning a few years ago, had EVERYTHING scanned. > > This hit and miss thing has a history to it. Historically, no vital record > system really existed. Luckily, the Azores are heavily Catholic and they > recorded baptism, marriages, and deaths, so that was a kind of vital record > system. In 1911, there was a change in government and the Civil Registry > system was created. It's like the vital record system in America. That was > great from 1911 forward, but they needed something for the people who were > born, married, and died before 1911. So the government went to the local > Catholic churches and took the books to create the vital record system. Since > they were interested in birth, marriage, and death, they took the books that > concerned those events. The confession rolls did not concern the vital record > events of birth, marriage, death. Why some were turned over, I don't know. > Maybe a couple of priests did genealogy and understood the value. Note: They > way the government went about obtaining the books wasn't done tactfully. The > people from the time period of 1911 stated that the government came and > "stole" the records from the Church. One priest in Bretanha on Sao Miguel > island gave the government all of the books except the earliest baptism book > which he hid under his bed when the government came in 1911. Today that book > is still at the church and NOT in the archive. It's been 106 years now. I > wish someone would talk the current priest in to handing that book over for > historical preservation. However, I think George Pacheco and John Raposo has > extracted the baptisms out of that book when they have gone there. > > Then there's the whole Hatfield and McCoy feud that goes on between Terceira > and Sao Miguel islands. Sao Miguel wound up with the "capital" of the Azores > on their island, and Terceira wound up with the Diocese seat. These decisions > were made in the 1500s (maybe the 1400s). So that's 500 or 600 years ago. > Someone wanted both the Diocese and the capital on their island and it didn't > happen that way. And it made some people mad. And this has gone on > generations and still affects us today. It is my understanding that certain > airlines can fly into Lajes on Terceira and others can go into Ponta Delgada. > If one island allows an airline, the other one won't. So if we want to get to > Lajes on Terceira, you have to fly out of Oakland or Toronto or something. > You can't get to Ponta Delgada from Oakland. You have to get to Boston to get > to PDL. Same thing with the CCA. The CCA is in the archive is on Terceira. > The server is in the archive on Sao Miguel. When the server goes down, no one > tells the CCA on Terceira. We just look at our computers with the time-out > screen. So one of us has to email the CCA who has absolutely no idea that the > server went down. Then there are the scans. I'm pretty sure Joao, the > archivist asked all 3 archives to scan the original documents in color. Angra > and Horta did as he requested. But Ponta Delgada on Sao Miguel? Nope, they > went ahead and scanned the microfilm. That comes out in black and white. The > scans from the other islands are better because of the contrast of the > original (and that they were originals. The microfilm is at least a 3rd > generation copy (original books > microfilm master > microfilm copy> scan)). > > So now you have a long winded version of more stuff than you ever wanted to > know. Cheri > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:25 AM, LouieLouieOhOh <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> Cheri, >> >> If the confessional roles aren't posted, do we assume they don't exist or >> they were just not scanned and added to the site? >> >> Louie >> >>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 10:31:53 PM UTC-8, Cheri Mello wrote: >>> Liz M >>> Go to Tombo.pt/en and find your freguesia. If the CCA has them, they >>> scanned them. >>> Here's what's available for Ribeira Seca on Sao Jorge: >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't know how many candy canes, sugar plums, or fruit cakes Jeremy has >>> been eating! >>> >>> We need to call the confession rolls just that. And if people don't know >>> what they are, we define it. That's what this list is for - to educate >>> people. Please don't mislead lead them or make them think they can get >>> access to things that are inaccessible. >>> >>> Just got to Tombo and and find your freguesia. If the confessional rolls >>> were scanned by the CCA they will be listed under Rois/Confessal (spelling). >>> Cheri >>> >>> Cheri Mello >>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Elizabeth Migliori <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> So are there confession rolls for Faial and Pico and All of Sao Miguel? >>>> like Cabouco, Lagoa? >>>> >>>> Liz >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT censuses. >>>>> Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a goverment >>>>> entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are confession rolls >>>>> (rólos de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from house to >>>>> house making sure everyone everyone had done confession and received >>>>> communion (I think). He listed their names, beginning with the head of >>>>> the household (usually the man), then the wife, then the kids. He lists >>>>> their ages. Because it happens to list households, it can function like a >>>>> census for our use, but it is NOT a census. It's a confession roll, used >>>>> by the Catholic church, not a census mandated by the government. >>>>> >>>>> I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for the >>>>> Azores. There's not. >>>>> >>>>> And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth, >>>>> marriage, death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think >>>>> a couple of freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao >>>>> Jorge. So most freguesia do NOT have them online. >>>>> >>>>> To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your >>>>> freguesia, and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA. >>>>> >>>>> Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, acknowledgements >>>>> (claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls. >>>>> >>>>> Cheri Mello >>>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >>>>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Jeremy, >>>>>> Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira Seca >>>>>> but ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings are >>>>>> listed in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married >>>>>> in 1870. >>>>>> >>>>>> Estevao José Mattos >>>>>> B-10/10/1832 >>>>>> D-3/3/1902 >>>>>> M- May 9 1870 >>>>>> St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus >>>>>> B-3/13/1850 >>>>>> Louie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C - >>>>>> Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Louie, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets for >>>>>>> your great grandfather in case you did not have them. Note: Jose de >>>>>>> Sousa Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca. If you >>>>>>> didn't have the attached, I can look up more names for you............ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jeremy >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. 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