What fantastic information! Louie
On Dec 14, 2016 11:56 AM, "Joanne Mercier" <[email protected]> wrote: > No wonder those Sáo Miguel scans can be very difficult to read - yikes! > > I’d love a look at the early baptism book from Bretanha. It could clear up > a few things for me on my tree. > > Joanne Grota Mercier > > > On December 14, 2016 at 2:31:34 PM, Liz Migliori ([email protected]) > wrote: > > Wow 😳 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: > > Assumption is a dangerous thing in genealogy! > > The confession rolls are supposed to be at the original church. Do they > all exist? Probably not. How far back do they go? I've seen them to the > 1800s. I don't know if they go back to the 1700s or not. I haven't seen any. > > Then there's something going on with the Sao Jorge confession rolls. I > didn't understand what Jeremy meant last night (looooong day) and I was > trying to playfully tease him, but he took it the wrong way and I made him > mad. Sorry!! He tried to send me a link for something on the mainland, but > the Google Group blocks me from the link. So I still don't understand why > Sao Jorge island has no confessional rolls on the CCA when Joao Ventura, > the archivist, who was in charge of the scanning a few years ago, had > EVERYTHING scanned. > > This hit and miss thing has a history to it. Historically, no vital record > system really existed. Luckily, the Azores are heavily Catholic and they > recorded baptism, marriages, and deaths, so that was a kind of vital record > system. In 1911, there was a change in government and the Civil Registry > system was created. It's like the vital record system in America. That was > great from 1911 forward, but they needed something for the people who were > born, married, and died before 1911. So the government went to the local > Catholic churches and took the books to create the vital record system. > Since they were interested in birth, marriage, and death, they took the > books that concerned those events. The confession rolls did not concern the > vital record events of birth, marriage, death. Why some were turned over, I > don't know. Maybe a couple of priests did genealogy and understood the > value. Note: They way the government went about obtaining the books wasn't > done tactfully. The people from the time period of 1911 stated that the > government came and "stole" the records from the Church. One priest in > Bretanha on Sao Miguel island gave the government all of the books except > the earliest baptism book which he hid under his bed when the government > came in 1911. Today that book is still at the church and NOT in the > archive. It's been 106 years now. I wish someone would talk the current > priest in to handing that book over for historical preservation. However, I > think George Pacheco and John Raposo has extracted the baptisms out of that > book when they have gone there. > > Then there's the whole Hatfield and McCoy feud that goes on between > Terceira and Sao Miguel islands. Sao Miguel wound up with the "capital" of > the Azores on their island, and Terceira wound up with the Diocese seat. > These decisions were made in the 1500s (maybe the 1400s). So that's 500 or > 600 years ago. Someone wanted both the Diocese and the capital on their > island and it didn't happen that way. And it made some people mad. And this > has gone on generations and still affects us today. It is my understanding > that certain airlines can fly into Lajes on Terceira and others can go into > Ponta Delgada. If one island allows an airline, the other one won't. So if > we want to get to Lajes on Terceira, you have to fly out of Oakland or > Toronto or something. You can't get to Ponta Delgada from Oakland. You have > to get to Boston to get to PDL. Same thing with the CCA. The CCA is in the > archive is on Terceira. The server is in the archive on Sao Miguel. When > the server goes down, no one tells the CCA on Terceira. We just look at our > computers with the time-out screen. So one of us has to email the CCA who > has absolutely no idea that the server went down. Then there are the scans. > I'm pretty sure Joao, the archivist asked all 3 archives to scan the > original documents in color. Angra and Horta did as he requested. But Ponta > Delgada on Sao Miguel? Nope, they went ahead and scanned the microfilm. > That comes out in black and white. The scans from the other islands are > better because of the contrast of the original (and that they were > originals. The microfilm is at least a 3rd generation copy (original books > > microfilm master > microfilm copy> scan)). > > So now you have a long winded version of more stuff than you ever wanted > to know. Cheri > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:25 AM, LouieLouieOhOh <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Cheri, >> >> If the confessional roles aren't posted, do we assume they don't exist or >> they were just not scanned and added to the site? >> >> Louie >> >> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 10:31:53 PM UTC-8, Cheri Mello wrote: >>> >>> Liz M >>> Go to Tombo.pt/en and find your freguesia. If the CCA has them, they >>> scanned them. >>> Here's what's available for Ribeira Seca on Sao Jorge: >>> >>> [image: Inline image 1] >>> >>> I don't know how many candy canes, sugar plums, or fruit cakes Jeremy >>> has been eating! >>> >>> We need to call the confession rolls just that. And if people don't know >>> what they are, we define it. That's what this list is for - to educate >>> people. Please don't mislead lead them or make them think they can get >>> access to things that are inaccessible. >>> >>> Just got to Tombo and and find your freguesia. If the confessional rolls >>> were scanned by the CCA they will be listed under Rois/Confessal (spelling). >>> Cheri >>> >>> Cheri Mello >>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira >>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Elizabeth Migliori <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> So are there confession rolls for Faial and Pico and All of Sao Miguel? >>>> like Cabouco, Lagoa? >>>> >>>> Liz >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cheri Mello <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT >>>>> censuses. Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a >>>>> goverment entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are >>>>> confession >>>>> rolls (rólos de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from >>>>> house to house making sure everyone everyone had done confession and >>>>> received communion (I think). He listed their names, beginning with the >>>>> head of the household (usually the man), then the wife, then the kids. He >>>>> lists their ages. Because it happens to list households, it can function >>>>> like a census for our use, but it is NOT a census. It's a confession roll, >>>>> used by the Catholic church, not a census mandated by the government. >>>>> >>>>> I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for >>>>> the Azores. There's not. >>>>> >>>>> And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth, >>>>> marriage, death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think a >>>>> couple of freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao Jorge. >>>>> So most freguesia do NOT have them online. >>>>> >>>>> To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your >>>>> freguesia, and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA. >>>>> [image: Inline image 1] >>>>> Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, >>>>> acknowledgements (claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls. >>>>> >>>>> Cheri Mello >>>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira >>>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jeremy, >>>>>> Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira >>>>>> Seca but ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings >>>>>> are listed in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were >>>>>> married >>>>>> in 1870. >>>>>> >>>>>> Estevao José Mattos >>>>>> B-10/10/1832 >>>>>> D-3/3/1902 >>>>>> M- May 9 1870 >>>>>> St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus >>>>>> B-3/13/1850 >>>>>> Louie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C - >>>>>> Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Louie, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets >>>>>>> for your great grandfather in case you did not have them. Note: Jose >>>>>>> de >>>>>>> Sousa Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca. If you >>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>> have the attached, I can look up more names for you............ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jeremy >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > topic/azores/CunP2xFPlsU/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. 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