No wonder those Sáo Miguel scans can be very difficult to read - yikes! I’d love a look at the early baptism book from Bretanha. It could clear up a few things for me on my tree.
Joanne Grota Mercier On December 14, 2016 at 2:31:34 PM, Liz Migliori (lizmi...@gmail.com) wrote: Wow 😳 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Cheri Mello <gfsche...@gmail.com> wrote: Assumption is a dangerous thing in genealogy! The confession rolls are supposed to be at the original church. Do they all exist? Probably not. How far back do they go? I've seen them to the 1800s. I don't know if they go back to the 1700s or not. I haven't seen any. Then there's something going on with the Sao Jorge confession rolls. I didn't understand what Jeremy meant last night (looooong day) and I was trying to playfully tease him, but he took it the wrong way and I made him mad. Sorry!! He tried to send me a link for something on the mainland, but the Google Group blocks me from the link. So I still don't understand why Sao Jorge island has no confessional rolls on the CCA when Joao Ventura, the archivist, who was in charge of the scanning a few years ago, had EVERYTHING scanned. This hit and miss thing has a history to it. Historically, no vital record system really existed. Luckily, the Azores are heavily Catholic and they recorded baptism, marriages, and deaths, so that was a kind of vital record system. In 1911, there was a change in government and the Civil Registry system was created. It's like the vital record system in America. That was great from 1911 forward, but they needed something for the people who were born, married, and died before 1911. So the government went to the local Catholic churches and took the books to create the vital record system. Since they were interested in birth, marriage, and death, they took the books that concerned those events. The confession rolls did not concern the vital record events of birth, marriage, death. Why some were turned over, I don't know. Maybe a couple of priests did genealogy and understood the value. Note: They way the government went about obtaining the books wasn't done tactfully. The people from the time period of 1911 stated that the government came and "stole" the records from the Church. One priest in Bretanha on Sao Miguel island gave the government all of the books except the earliest baptism book which he hid under his bed when the government came in 1911. Today that book is still at the church and NOT in the archive. It's been 106 years now. I wish someone would talk the current priest in to handing that book over for historical preservation. However, I think George Pacheco and John Raposo has extracted the baptisms out of that book when they have gone there. Then there's the whole Hatfield and McCoy feud that goes on between Terceira and Sao Miguel islands. Sao Miguel wound up with the "capital" of the Azores on their island, and Terceira wound up with the Diocese seat. These decisions were made in the 1500s (maybe the 1400s). So that's 500 or 600 years ago. Someone wanted both the Diocese and the capital on their island and it didn't happen that way. And it made some people mad. And this has gone on generations and still affects us today. It is my understanding that certain airlines can fly into Lajes on Terceira and others can go into Ponta Delgada. If one island allows an airline, the other one won't. So if we want to get to Lajes on Terceira, you have to fly out of Oakland or Toronto or something. You can't get to Ponta Delgada from Oakland. You have to get to Boston to get to PDL. Same thing with the CCA. The CCA is in the archive is on Terceira. The server is in the archive on Sao Miguel. When the server goes down, no one tells the CCA on Terceira. We just look at our computers with the time-out screen. So one of us has to email the CCA who has absolutely no idea that the server went down. Then there are the scans. I'm pretty sure Joao, the archivist asked all 3 archives to scan the original documents in color. Angra and Horta did as he requested. But Ponta Delgada on Sao Miguel? Nope, they went ahead and scanned the microfilm. That comes out in black and white. The scans from the other islands are better because of the contrast of the original (and that they were originals. The microfilm is at least a 3rd generation copy (original books > microfilm master > microfilm copy> scan)). So now you have a long winded version of more stuff than you ever wanted to know. Cheri Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:25 AM, LouieLouieOhOh <louielouieo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Cheri, > > If the confessional roles aren't posted, do we assume they don't exist or > they were just not scanned and added to the site? > > Louie > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 10:31:53 PM UTC-8, Cheri Mello wrote: >> >> Liz M >> Go to Tombo.pt/en and find your freguesia. If the CCA has them, they >> scanned them. >> Here's what's available for Ribeira Seca on Sao Jorge: >> >> [image: Inline image 1] >> >> I don't know how many candy canes, sugar plums, or fruit cakes Jeremy has >> been eating! >> >> We need to call the confession rolls just that. And if people don't know >> what they are, we define it. That's what this list is for - to educate >> people. Please don't mislead lead them or make them think they can get >> access to things that are inaccessible. >> >> Just got to Tombo and and find your freguesia. If the confessional rolls >> were scanned by the CCA they will be listed under Rois/Confessal (spelling). >> Cheri >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, >> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >> >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Elizabeth Migliori <lizm...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> So are there confession rolls for Faial and Pico and All of Sao Miguel? >>> like Cabouco, Lagoa? >>> >>> Liz >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT >>>> censuses. Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a >>>> goverment entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are confession >>>> rolls (rólos de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from >>>> house to house making sure everyone everyone had done confession and >>>> received communion (I think). He listed their names, beginning with the >>>> head of the household (usually the man), then the wife, then the kids. He >>>> lists their ages. Because it happens to list households, it can function >>>> like a census for our use, but it is NOT a census. It's a confession roll, >>>> used by the Catholic church, not a census mandated by the government. >>>> >>>> I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for >>>> the Azores. There's not. >>>> >>>> And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth, >>>> marriage, death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think a >>>> couple of freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao Jorge. >>>> So most freguesia do NOT have them online. >>>> >>>> To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your >>>> freguesia, and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA. >>>> [image: Inline image 1] >>>> Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, >>>> acknowledgements (claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls. >>>> >>>> Cheri Mello >>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen >>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira >>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh <louielo...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jeremy, >>>>> Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira >>>>> Seca but ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings >>>>> are listed in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married >>>>> in 1870. >>>>> >>>>> Estevao José Mattos >>>>> B-10/10/1832 >>>>> D-3/3/1902 >>>>> M- May 9 1870 >>>>> St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus >>>>> B-3/13/1850 >>>>> Louie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C - >>>>> Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Louie, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets >>>>>> for your great grandfather in case you did not have them. Note: Jose de >>>>>> Sousa Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca. If you didn't >>>>>> have the attached, I can look up more names for you............ >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeremy >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
