Good Morning Philippe, I have found some additional records. Its keep this post all about Antonio Coelho Bebereia. I will do another post for his wife Maira do Espirito Santo. Below is a link to Antonio Coelho Berbereia’s baptism record. It shows his parents as Jose Coelho de Melo Machado and Isabel de Jesus. This matches his first few children’s baptism records and in Antonio Marriage record it list his parents as Jose Coelho de Melo and Isabel de Jesus. Probably close enough. On his baptism His grandparents are listed as Jose Coelho Berbereia and Isabel de Jesus and Antonio Miguel Ferreira and Antonia Maria. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1870-1879/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1870-1879_item1/P21.html This should match the marriage record of Jose Coelho de Melo Machado and Isabel de Jesus. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1860-1869/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1860-1869_item1/P29.html
Jose Coelho de Melo Machado and Isabel de Jesus marriage record list parents of the groom as Jose Coelho and Isabel de Jesus and parents of the bride as Antonio Ferreira and Antonia Narcisa. So with that information I went to look in the marriage index for these parents’ marriages. I found a Jose and Isabel de Jesus marriage record and Antonio Ferreira Coelho and Antonia Narcisa. Below is the links to those marriages Jose and Isabel: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1787-1831/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1787-1831_item1/P62.html In order to conform this information I need to look at Jose’s baptism record. Here is the link: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1815-1826/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1815-1826_item1/P194.html It conforms the parents names but does not list grandparents. The godfather appears to have a connection to the mother’s maternal side. I can not read the information on the godmother. I know she is a widow. Maybe? Philippe, I need help with this part. Here is Jose’s death record: CCA Pg 74 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-O-1840-1860/TER-AH-ALTARES-O-1840-1860_item1/P74.html but he does not give his parents’ names and the age listed makes him 10 years older than what I have. Interesting. May be a problem. Antonio and Antonia: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1831-1843/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1831-1843_item1/P41.html In order to confirm this information I would need to locate Isabel’s baptism record. I believe it is in between 1840-1845. I’m assuming she was baptized in Altares. So what I have is Antonio Coelho Berbereia, husband of Maria do Espirito Santo, is the son of Jose Coelho de Melo Machado, who changes his name to Jose Coelho Berbereia later in life, and Isabel de Jesus. Jose is the son of Jose Coelho Berbereia and Isabel de Jesus. I fear they may be several generation of couple with this combination of names. I have the marriage record of Antonio’s paternal grandparents http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1787-1831/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1787-1831_item1/P62.html I know this connection between Jose and his wife Isabel de Jesus and his father Jose and Isabel de Jesus, who also used Isabel da Conceicao because it was confirmed by Joao Ventura. Antonio’s maternal grandparents are Antonio Miguel Ferreira aka Antonio Ferreira Coelho and Antonia Maria aka Antonia Narcisa. In order to confirm this connection I need to find Isabel’s baptism record. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: 'Philippe GARNIER' via Azores Genealogy Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Big Problems with Altares line whichkeepschanging names Hi Doreen, I found to, and I have a lot informatins about their parents. I send you another day, because my bdd is on another computer forbidden of internet (hi hi). But, I search more about Francisco Correa Romeiro e Maria Augusta. On the batism of Maria, her maternal grandparents are Francisco Coelho Pinheiro and Gertrudes Candidad do Coraçao de Jesus. I have a Francisco Gonçalves Pinheiro and Gertrudes Candida married in Altares on 14 june 1835 ((img 36). This Francisco have a Nicolau Borges Coelho (3th grand father). Perhaps, he is the father of Maria Augusta. Paternal grandparents of Maria are Silvestre Correa Roeiro and Francisca de Jesus. Their marriage is in Altares on é& junes 1845 (img 17); The parents of Francisca de Jesus are José NUNES do COUTO (like Francisco sometimes). Silvester is widow of Maria Vicência, and i Don't found this marriage. Maria Vicencia died on11 march 1845, with 23 years old. Then she married a littel time before 1845. I searched a Silvestre in Altares, name no frequent. And in my bdd I have a Silvestre born in Altares, on 31 december 1809 (img 114). His parents are Filipe Romeiro and Maria de Jesus. And his paternam grandparents are José CORREIA ROMEIRO and Maria Josefa. Then, this Silvestre is probably our Silvestre CORREIA ROMEIRO. All of them I have ascendents until the 6th or 9th generation. Philippe Garnier Paris - France Familias da ilha Terceira Familias da ilha Terceira Familias da ilha Terceira : Francisco Ferreira Dormonde (Ormonde, Armond) Aleixo Pacheo de Lima Manoel de Ponte ... Em quarta-feira, 26 de setembro de 2018 01:18:18 GMT+2, <[email protected]> escreveu: Great. I have continued to research these lines. I found the marriage record for Antonio Coelho Berbereia’s parents, Jose Coelho de Melo Machado and Isabel de Jesus. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1860-1869/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1860-1869_item1/P29.html Do not have Isabel de Jesus’s baptism record but her parents are Antonio Ferreira Coelho and Antonia Narcisa and here’s the link to their marriage record http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1831-1843/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1831-1843_item1/P41.html I also have the marriage records for their parents but will post tomorrow. I need to get off the computer right now. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: 'Philippe GARNIER' via Azores Genealogy Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 9:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Big Problems with Altares line which keepschanging names Dear Dorreen, It's interesting. I have not this one on my bdd. I'll do research and see if I can answer. Abraços Philippe Garnier Paris - France Em domingo, 23 de setembro de 2018 19:19:57 GMT+2, [email protected] <[email protected]> escreveu: Well where to begin…I’m trying to help a DNA cousin develop their tree. Their lineage goes through Antonio Coelho Berbereia and Maria do Espirito Santo. Here’s is the link to their marriage record http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-C-1890-1899/TER-AH-RAMINHO-C-1890-1899_item1/P26.html In this document it says his parents are Jose Coelho de Melo and Isabel de Jesus and her parents are Francisco Correia Romeiro and Maria Augusta. I can not find the marriage of these two couples. I have found the baptism of Maria do Espirito Santo, on the bottom of right side of the page on this link http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1870-1879/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1870-1879_item1/P134.html Here’s the really big problem: the birth of their first child, Maria, shows the grandparents to be parental Jose Coelho de Melo Machado and Isabel de Jesus and maternal Francisco Nunes and Amelia Augusta. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899_item1/P71.html Second child Jesuina’s record lists grandparents as paternal Jose Correia de Melo Machado and Isabel de Jesus http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899_item1/P102.html and so does the third child Esperanca’s record http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899_item1/P145.html as well as the 4th and 5th children who are twins Francisco and Amelia’s records. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1890-1899_item1/P183.html Then there is a change: for the 6th child Paulina’s record says her paternal grandparents are Jose Coelho Berbereia and Isabel de Jesus and her maternal grandparents are Francisco Nunes do Coito and Maria Augusta. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911_item1/P31.html Now the adding of the “do Coito” to Francisco Nunes seem likely since I saw that surname on Amelia’s baptism as her godfather Manuel Nunes do Coito. Also I have been trying to track the Jose Coelho Berbereia for year now who seems to change his name to Jose Coelho de Melo and Jose Coelho de Melo Machado. This is very confusing because I believe this Jose is the son of Jose Coelho de Melo and Isabel de Jesus, which is the son of Jose Coelho de Melo and Isabel de Jesus, which is the son of Jose Coelho de Melo and Isabel da Conceicao who also uses Isabel de Jesus( my 2nd Great Grandparents, who is the son of Francisco Jose Berbereia and Joana Antonia. This change in their name continues through the rest of their children: Paulina #2, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911_item1/P69.html Joao, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911_item1/P95.html Joao Baptista, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911_item1/P116.html Isabel http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911_item1/P140.html and Alexandrina http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911/TER-AH-RAMINHO-B-1900-1911_item1/P198.html Questions: DO YOU THINK THAT THE MARRIAGE RECORD HAS THE MISTAKE? OR IS THERE ANOTHER REASON WHY THE BRIDE’S PARENTS ARE NOT THE MATERNAL GRANDPARENTS? hOW COMMON IS IT TO HAVE A PERSON’S NAME CHANGE SO MANY TIMES (I’m speaking of Jose Coelho (Correia) de Melo aka Jose Coelho de Melo Machado aka Jose Coelho Berbereia) And is it just my luck or DO YOU THINK IT IS NOT LIKELY THAT ALL THESE JOSE COELHO DE MELO(S) ALL MARRIED ISABEL DE JESUS(S)? ANY FEEDBACK/DIRECTION/ADVISE/ETC WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks, Doreen Caetano Sent from Mail for Windows 10 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
