Sorry, didn’t read that detail, which speaks for itself. If the priest wrote it in the record that saves you having to search any further. The accuracy I was referring to was with regard to variations in the Grandparents names of the baptized.
Yes, to my knowledge the Roda Publica was set up in the City Halls, thus “public”. Initially they were left at door steps and churches. A few convents had Roda’s but as the Church was overwhelmed the City took over. Books were created and each child was given a number. You will find examples of this in Sao Sebastiao, Matriz, Ponta Delgada, birth records, expostos. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-B-1874-1874/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-B-1874-1874_item1/P4.html Sorry, can’t comment on family lure, which usually held some truth but if the records do not state the child was claimed then the mother would not have been able to take it back without the proper authorization. Which would then be appended to the child’s birth record. To answer you questions ‘would the Camara have any records of this abandoned child at someone’s door step” ----- the answer is dependent of the time period as noted above. Regarding name changes; I have seen records where the same exposto started off as ‘ da Camara ‘ to Camara Costa, to Costa Camara, to Carvalho. This to me shows the personal difficulty of this individual had in identifying with his own given/adopted surname. There was no official document that could firm up surnames as the Church only kept first name basis records. Surnames at certain points were up to the families or individuals to take them on. When Civil registry took over late 18th Century then the rules changed and every born child was registered with a full name and surname [s]. Hope this helps, Cheers, Margaret From: Leonor Bertoni Sent: February 14, 2019 11:59 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Vitorino Medeiros/Monica deJesus Rosario, Lagoa, Sao Miguel That's awesome! Thank you very much. I do not think that Monica had any type of identification as the baptismal record says "sem traser signal algum" but, as you said, it may not be accurate. For future reference, when they say "roda publica nesta freguesia", was the roda in the Camara? One more question, my aunt's husband was also abandoned but he was left on a wet nurse's doorstep. The story is that he, Carlos, was the son of a rich man whom his his mom worked for. It is said that later she went and took him back (when he was 2). I found Carlos' baptismal record and marriage record where it shows his last name, which we assume is his mother's name. However, later on it is said that Carlos' real father passed away and his children found Carlos to give him some inheritance. At that point, he changed his last name to match his father's. As we know, stories change and grow. Would the Camara have any records of this abandoned child since he was left at someone's doorstep? For any legal name change, he would also have to go through the Camara, correct? I am also aware that he may have just changed his name on his children's records as they were being registered. Thank you in advance. Leonor On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 11:12, Margaret Vicente <margaretvice...@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Leonor, Here's what I've learned researching similar case [s]. If Expostos were not claimed there's no way of knowing who the parents were. It is the end of a line, sadly. The reason why the names changed over time was because everything was verbal and since different people may be giving the priest the information, that may vary. The record that can be relied on is the Marriage record, because all information was verified and proof of birth had to be obtained. Baptismal records were not verified by the priests for Grandparents veracity. The record link you posted states Monica was placed in the Roda da Camara. They may have kept records for their Expostos. Descriptive records were kept by the Camaras' and Santa Casa in which it describes the child, clothing and if accompanied by a note. Many expostos came with their name and whether or not the child had already been baptized. This info will not lead to the parents but does give some sort of connection to the child. So If you want to take it a step further, and since you are fluent in the native language, my suggestion is for you to contact Lagoa's Camara Municipal to see if they can point you in the right direction. Gabinete de Comunicação e Relações Públicas Casa da Cultura Carlos César Rua General Bernardo do Canto, 1-3 9560-106 Lagoa (Santa Cruz) E-mail: veronica.alme...@lagoa-acores.pt Telefone: 296 960 600 (Geral) Good luck. Margaret On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 11:56 PM Leonor Bertoni <leonor.bert...@gmail.com> wrote: It's all good, lol. On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 22:36, linda <menesesli...@gmail.com> wrote: Sorry! I mean Hi Leonor-- not Monica! On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 7:33:50 PM UTC-8, linda wrote: Hi Monica, I suggest you make a timeline for the events. Perhaps you should add annotations as to who the priest (source) is that is making the records. The priests' records are only as accurate as their sources. Sometimes they had personal knowledge of the participants-- sometimes not. It will help refresh your memory later, if needed. For what it's worth, you may only have two sets of potential parents for Monica. Manuel da Costa Elisa and Maria de Jesus might be the same couple as Manuel da Costa (Homem) and Maria Julia. Did you notice that Monica's baptismal godmother is also named "Maria Julia"? I don't know if you will get a definitive answer to your question, but you can collect information on the families and try to make some (speculative) connections. I have a similar case for one of my ancestors. She was baptised as "pai incognito", but in her later children's records, a maternal grandfather's name starts to appear. It may be her natural father, or it may be the priest making an assumption about her mother's husband. I can only guess which it might be. In another case, one of my great-grandmothers later children's baptismal records start to show grandparents for a different woman with a similar name. I assume the priest was confusing the two women. best of luck, Linda On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 6:08:00 PM UTC-8, leonor....@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone. I am looking for some help in identifying if Monica de Jesus was a foundling. Below are the records I have found. As you will see, Monica's lists 3 different couples as her parents. We do know for a fact that Vitorino only had one wife. My question is if there is any known reason as to why this would happen. Monica's baptismal record showing her as an "exposta" http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1870-1879/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1870-1879_item1/P409.html Monica's and Vitorino's marriage record showing Monica's parents as "incognitos" http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-C-1890-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-C-1890-1899_item1/P300.html To here I think everything adds up. This is where it starts to get confusing. The first 2 of Monica's and Vitorino's children list the maternal grandparents as "incognitos" However, the third and fourth child lists the maternal grandparents as Maria Julia and Manuel da Costa (Homem) http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899_item1/P270.html http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1900-1905/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1900-1905_item1/P379.html The fifth child list the mother as Maria do Rosario Monica - This record lists the maternal grandparents as Manuel da Costa Elisa and Maria de Jesus - (Maria bottom of the page) http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911_item1/P86.html The 6th child, Catharina, shows the mother as Monica Boniface and the maternal grandparents as Joao Bonifacio and Maria Machado http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911_item1/P304.html The 7th child, Diamantina, shows the mother as Maria do Rosario Monica and the maternal grandparents as Joao Bonifacio and Maria Machado http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911_item1/P567.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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