Leonor, since you made reference to a possible inheritance, there is a section on the Azores site that allows one to research names regarding property and inventories. But the site address escapes me now. Perhaps someone who knows can post the address.
JR On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 12:52:25 PM UTC-5, Mara wrote: > > Sorry, didn’t read that detail, which speaks for itself. If the priest > wrote it in the record that saves you having to search any further. The > accuracy I was referring to was with regard to variations in the > Grandparents names of the baptized. > > > > Yes, to my knowledge the Roda Publica was set up in the City Halls, thus > “public”. Initially they were left at door steps and churches. A few > convents had Roda’s but as the Church was overwhelmed the City took over. > Books were created and each child was given a number. You will find > examples of this in Sao Sebastiao, Matriz, Ponta Delgada, birth records, > expostos. > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-B-1874-1874/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-B-1874-1874_item1/P4.html > > > > Sorry, can’t comment on family lure, which usually held some truth but if > the records do not state the child was claimed then the mother would not > have been able to take it back without the proper authorization. Which > would then be appended to the child’s birth record. > > > > To answer you questions ‘would the Camara have any records of this > abandoned child at someone’s door step” ----- the answer is dependent of > the time period as noted above. > > > > Regarding name changes; I have seen records where the same exposto started > off as ‘ da Camara ‘ to Camara Costa, to Costa Camara, to Carvalho. This > to me shows the personal difficulty of this individual had in identifying > with his own given/adopted surname. > > > > There was no official document that could firm up surnames as the Church > only kept first name basis records. Surnames at certain points were up to > the families or individuals to take them on. When Civil registry took over > late 18th Century then the rules changed and every born child was > registered with a full name and surname [s]. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > Cheers, > > Margaret > > > > > > > > *From: *Leonor Bertoni <javascript:> > *Sent: *February 14, 2019 11:59 AM > *To: *[email protected] <javascript:> > *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Vitorino Medeiros/Monica > deJesus Rosario, Lagoa, Sao Miguel > > > > That's awesome! Thank you very much. I do not think that Monica had any > type of identification as the baptismal record says "sem traser signal > algum" but, as you said, it may not be accurate. For future reference, when > they say "roda publica nesta freguesia", was the roda in the Camara? > > > > One more question, my aunt's husband was also abandoned but he was left on > a wet nurse's doorstep. The story is that he, Carlos, was the son of a rich > man whom his his mom worked for. It is said that later she went and took > him back (when he was 2). I found Carlos' baptismal record and marriage > record where it shows his last name, which we assume is his mother's name. > However, later on it is said that Carlos' real father passed away and his > children found Carlos to give him some inheritance. At that point, he > changed his last name to match his father's. As we know, stories change > and grow. Would the Camara have any records of this abandoned child since > he was left at someone's doorstep? For any legal name change, he would also > have to go through the Camara, correct? I am also aware that he may have > just changed his name on his children's records as they were being > registered. > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Leonor > > > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 11:12, Margaret Vicente <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > Hello Leonor, > > > > Here's what I've learned researching similar case [s]. If Expostos were > not claimed there's no way of knowing who the parents were. It is the end > of a line, sadly. The reason why the names changed over time was because > everything was verbal and since different people may be giving the priest > the information, that may vary. > > > > The record that can be relied on is the Marriage record, because all > information was verified and proof of birth had to be obtained. Baptismal > records were not verified by the priests for Grandparents veracity. > > > > The record link you posted states Monica was placed in the Roda da > Camara. They may have kept records for their Expostos. Descriptive records > were kept by the Camaras' and Santa Casa in which it describes the child, > clothing and if accompanied by a note. Many expostos came with their name > and whether or not the child had already been baptized. This info will not > lead to the parents but does give some sort of connection to the child. So > If you want to take it a step further, and since you are fluent in the > native language, my suggestion is for you to contact Lagoa's Camara > Municipal to see if they can point you in the right direction. > > > > *Gabinete de Comunicação e Relações Públicas* > Casa da Cultura Carlos César > > Rua General Bernardo do Canto, 1-3 > 9560-106 Lagoa (Santa Cruz) > > E-mail: [email protected] <javascript:> > > Telefone: 296 960 600 (Geral) > > > > Good luck. > > > > Margaret > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 11:56 PM Leonor Bertoni <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > It's all good, lol. > > > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 22:36, linda <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > Sorry! I mean Hi Leonor-- not Monica! > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 7:33:50 PM UTC-8, linda wrote: > > Hi Monica, > > > > I suggest you make a timeline for the events. Perhaps you should add > annotations as to who the priest (source) is that is making the records. > The priests' records are only as accurate as their sources. Sometimes they > had personal knowledge of the participants-- sometimes not. It will help > refresh your memory later, if needed. > > > > For what it's worth, you may only have two sets of potential parents for > Monica. Manuel da Costa Elisa and Maria de Jesus might be the same couple > as Manuel da Costa (Homem) and Maria Julia. > > > > Did you notice that Monica's baptismal godmother is also named "Maria > Julia"? > > > > I don't know if you will get a definitive answer to your question, but you > can collect information on the families and try to make some (speculative) > connections. > > > > I have a similar case for one of my ancestors. She was baptised as "pai > incognito", but in her later children's records, a maternal grandfather's > name starts to appear. It may be her natural father, or it may be the > priest making an assumption about her mother's husband. I can only guess > which it might be. In another case, one of my great-grandmothers later > children's baptismal records start to show grandparents for a different > woman with a similar name. I assume the priest was confusing the two > women. > > > > best of luck, > > > > Linda > > > > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 6:08:00 PM UTC-8, [email protected] > wrote: > > Hello everyone. I am looking for some help in identifying if Monica de > Jesus was a foundling. Below are the records I have found. As you will see, > Monica's lists 3 different couples as her parents. We do know for a fact > that Vitorino only had one wife. My question is if there is any known > reason as to why this would happen. > > > > Monica's baptismal record showing her as an "exposta" > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1870-1879/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1870-1879_item1/P409.html > > > > Monica's and Vitorino's marriage record showing Monica's parents as > "incognitos" > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-C-1890-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-C-1890-1899_item1/P300.html > > > > To here I think everything adds up. This is where it starts to get > confusing. > > > > The first 2 of Monica's and Vitorino's children list the maternal > grandparents as "incognitos" > > > > However, the third and fourth child lists the maternal grandparents as > Maria Julia and Manuel da Costa (Homem) > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899_item1/P270.html > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1900-1905/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1900-1905_item1/P379.html > > > > The fifth child list the mother as Maria do Rosario Monica - This record > lists the maternal grandparents as Manuel da Costa Elisa and Maria de Jesus > - (Maria bottom of the page) > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911_item1/P86.html > > > > The 6th child, Catharina, shows the mother as Monica Boniface and the > maternal grandparents as Joao Bonifacio and Maria Machado > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911_item1/P304.html > > > > The 7th child, Diamantina, shows the mother as Maria do Rosario Monica and > the maternal grandparents as Joao Bonifacio and Maria Machado > > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1906-1911_item1/P567.html > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > > > > -- > > Margaret M Vicente > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. 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