Thank you Cheri; I sent an email with my wife's kit# and the names of the matches of interest. I also sent an email to ask if they are registered in the Azores DNA project.
I understand that I cannot prove they are the same person. All I can do is attempt to disprove it. I have accounted for the two kids mentioned in Maria Isabel's obit. One was born in 1849 on Graciosa and the other in 1854 on Sao Jorge. The first immigrated around 1869 and died in Sacramento CA in 1923. The second is my wife's great grandfather who raised a family on Sao Jorge and died in Urzelina in 1926. She also had a child in 1852 but that one died in infancy. Bill On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: > > Bill, > Email me offlist with your wife's kit number and the name of her DNA > match. OR screen shot the match and block out the name of the match. OR > contact the match and ask permission to post their name and picture, but be > sure to explain to them that you are removing their name and picture from > the security of the FTDNA web site and are posting it on the the World Wide > Web and anyone with Internet access will be able to find out that they have > DNA tested. Be sure that they understand that by your action, they cannot > hold anyone else liable for the knowledge that they DNA tested is out > there. And then send me that permission to post his/her name and picture. > > It's hard to help the Austrialians and New Zealanders in that time period. > I don't know what resources they have for that time period. > > Instead of trying to prove that is guy is the match's guy, prove that he's > not. Maria dies first (her obit does NOT say he's "ausente") so look for > his death in that parish. Maria's obit also says she left 2 children. You > need to reconcile that as well. I'd look for children of Maria and this > Francisco for 5 years after Oct 1855 just to be really sure. And be really > sure that you don't have 2 Francisco Joses married to 2 Maria Isabels in > that same freguesia. I would think it would be very difficult to lie on a > confession roll as well. The priest would find out. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, > Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada > > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:34 AM <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > >> This is just a shot in the dark looking for any help. My wife has a >> close DNA match in New Zealand. He is the grandson of Francis Joseph. A >> mariner that jumped ship in New Zealand in the 1860s, reported that he was >> widowed when he married in New Zealand in the 1880s, was from the Azores >> and had a father named Antonio that was a carpenter. Francis Joseph did >> work as a cooper for his company in New Zealand. I got this information >> from member of this list who is also a DNA match to my wife and a nephew of >> the closer match. We are studying the possibility that Francisco Jose >> Cordeiro and Francis Joseph might be the same person hoping to prove or >> disprove it. >> >> Their names and ages roughly line up. I do not know if Francisco's >> father Antonio was a carpenter on Graciosa, but his son and grandson were >> both carpenters. There is a Francis Joseph listed as a cooper on the >> Whaling Ship Seconet on a voyage from 1955 to 1860 (a carpenter could >> easily be a cooper) but unfortunately the database does not give an age or >> home. This vessel did go to the South Pacific. >> >> I am trying to trace Francisco Jose Cordeiro and looking for any >> insight. I am especially trying to figure out if he could have been absent >> from the Azores from mid/late 1860s and on in spite of his wife's obit >> saying they are still married. >> >> >> Here is his baptism in 1828 in Sao Mateus da Praia, Graciosa >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1826-1833/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1826-1833_item1/P30.html >> >> Here is his marriage on Sao Miguel Island in July 1849: >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1841-1854/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1841-1854_item1/P121.html >> >> Here is his son Manuel's baptism in his home parish on Graciosa 5 months >> later: >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1841-1855/GRA-SC-SAOMATEUS-B-1841-1855_item1/P179.html >> >> Here is his second son Joao's baptism in Urzelina, Sao Jorge in 1852 >> (Note that Urzelina is where his wife lived the two years prior to marriage >> according to her marriage): >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1841-1855/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1841-1855_item1/P82.html >> >> That son died after just 40 days: >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1841-1858/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1841-1858_item1/P41.html >> >> Here is his 3d son (second named Joao) baptism in Oct 1855 (note: he was >> born Jun 1854, about 15 months prior) >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1855-1860/SJR-VL-URZELINA-B-1855-1860_item1/P14.html >> >> This marriage lists Francisco Jose Cordeiro as father of the groom and is >> a carpenter in 1882: >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1880-1889/SJR-VL-URZELINA-C-1880-1889_item1/P24.html >> >> This obit says Maria Isabel is "casada com Francisco Jose Cordeiro" in >> 1901 >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1900-1911/SJR-VL-URZELINA-O-1900-1911_item1/P14.html >> >> The only Urzelina confessional roll available for the time in question is >> 1888. It does not list Francisco Jose Cordeiro. His son Joao Baptista >> Cordeiro is listed there along with his wife and their first two kids. >> Also listed in the house is a Maria Jose, mother, widow, 76 years old. I >> am thinking this could be Joao's mother (Francisco Jose Cordeiro's wife) >> but her name is Maria Isabel and she would be only 69 years old. It doubt >> it could be Joao's mother-in-law because her name was Rosa Ignacia and she >> was never married. Francisco's son Manuel went to California as a young >> man (about 1869) and raised a family in Sacramento under the name Manuel >> Jose Lamb. I can't find his immigration that might help figure out if his >> family were on Graciosa or Sao Jorge at the time of his departure. The >> only other son (just to confirm his mother's obit said she left 2 kids) >> stayed on Sao Jorge and had four kids, one of whom is my wife's grandfather >> Joao Batista Cordeiro Jr. >> >> I applaud anyone that takes the time to read through this mess and look >> forward to any comments >> >> Bill Seidler >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
