After this servant posted this afternoon there are already so many letters
on the List.
I shall focus with your indulgence on a few postings by Gilberto, Mark, and
John. I liked very much Scott�s and Mr Anaraki�s too.
First I quote faithfully.
Gilberto, my dear brother, writes;
**I'm not sure what you [khazeh f] are saying here. It seems like "first"
and "last" don't mean anything at all in the writings of Bah�u�ll�h. That
doesn't make sense to me. Even if you wanted to take the hadith above, or
even others where the prophet says that the first thing created was his
light...
� But then still, in the physical sense Muhammad was still unique in saying
that prophethood ended with him. The other prophets simply didn't make the
same claim before.
Gilberto**
AND AGAIN FROM BROTHER GILBERTO
**All I've been trying to say in this whole sub-topic is that in Islam there
is a very clear, strongly emphasized principle which is believed to a high
degree of consensus that Muhammad was the last prophet and that prophethood
is over. This is something which both Sunni and Shia agree to.
But the same isn't true in Christianity�G]
MARK FOSTER
What can be said is that some of the NT writers apparently believed that
prophets, as they understood the concept, would continue. (There is a debate
among the various Christianities as to how long that would occur. Some
believe that prophecy, like tongues, ended with the canonization of "the
Bible.") These "Prophets" were expected to operate within a Christocentric
context. In other words, just as Islam is Qur'anocentric, most of the
Christianities are Christocentric.
�As I see it, the Sunni caliphate and Paul's view of prophethood were both
attempts to institutionalize charismatic authority after the passings of
Muhammad and Christ. In that respect, both concepts have more in common with
each than either have with the Qur��nic concept of nab�.
�The tanakhian minor Prophets were the spiritual successors to Moses.
According to the record, they "prophesied," both in the sense of foretelling
and forth telling. Paul's concept of a "prophetes" is one who served a
congregation of believers
Also my brother, JOHN SMITH, writes:***
Bah�'�s assert Muhammad was Jesus, and Baha'u'llah is Muhammad and
Baha'u'llah is Jesus. Bah�'�s assert Muhammad was Jesus, and Baha'u'llah is
Muhammad and Baha'u'llah is Jesus.***
This servant [khazeh] would wholeheartedly agree with the very good points
in all the above especially Mark�s erudite contributions.
What I wish to contribute is am illumination re this unsurpassable
difficulty re the theological/semantic/ meaning of last. Brother Gilberto
is impressed that LAST means temporal lastness/ [although LAST literally in
the Arabic aakhir does not occur in the Holy Qur�an about Muhammad]. Rather
Seal KHAATAM occurs�But at any rate His Holiness Baha�u�llah quotes Ja�far
S.aadiq the 6th Imam quoting His Ancestors and the Prophet Muhammad saying.
***"Muhammad is our first, Muhammad our last, Muhammad our all."
(Baha'u'llah: The Kitab-i-Iqan, Page: 153)***
>From this particular sacred teaching, this spiritual teaching, this
non-temporal perspective Muhammad is both Last and First. And moreover the
Continuity of WAH. Y [Revelation is assured].
There are definitely strands within Islam that allow us to look at Muhammad
with this universal perspective, this metaphysical perspective.
There is the teaching in Islam [which a Bahai can understand a Bahai of
whatever background and a Bahai can understand it in the light of the Iqan]
There is a teaching in Islam that in a sense the PROPHET WAS THE FIRST
PROPHET.
As for the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace) being the first of
creation, among the Islamic scholars who have compiled works on his
characteristics is the hadith master (hafiz) Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti with his
two-volume hadith work al-Khasa�is al-kubra [The greater compendium of
unique attributes], of which the first chapter is entitled "The Uniqueness
of the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace) in Being the First of the
Prophets to Be Created, the Priority of His Prophethood, and the Taking of
the Covenant with Him." �
THE FOCAL POINT OF THIS LIGHT OF LIGHTS, THE HEAD OF THE WHOLE MATTER OF ITS
APPEARANCE, AND THE SITE OF ITS MANIFESTATION�IN A SENSE THE R�SUM� OF ALL
CREATED BEING AND OCCASION FOR ITS APPEARANCE�IS THE AL-HAQIQA
AL-MUHAMMADIYYA, OR �MUHAMMADAN REALITY� THE HOLY PROPHET (GOD BLESS HIM AND
GIVE HIM PEACE) �
In His unfathomable Self, God perceived Himself by Himself in the perfection
of His essence. He then desired to perceive His perfection through His
names, though these are determined only by their effects. He consequently
manifested Himself in the form of the comprehensive Spirit (al-ruh
al-kulli), in which the general image of all things was decreed in
accordance with God's knowledge of it. Through this manifestation the Divine
Self became reflected in reverse as in a mirror. God then turned to this
mirror with His face, the inner reality of every thing, and in this way the
particular things became externally manifested. This mirror is called the
breath of God (nafas al-Haqq), the Reality of the Prophet (al-haqiqa
al-Muhammadiyya), and Adam.
This is what some of the more enlightened thinkers say and this is in
accord, in principle with the Divine Utterances of Baha�u�llah in the Iqan
Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur'an, revealed: "I am all the
Prophets." Likewise, He saith: "I am the first Adam.
(Baha'u'llah: The Kitab-i-Iqan, Pages: 152-153)
So I would say that there is no dispute or disagreement between Gilberto
John and Mark and there is no need for Gilberto to feel any frustration in
this discourse. The Bahai believes the position of Gilberto, in essence, but
we emphasize that lastness and firstness is not in time or the contingent
world
I truly hope this sense of frustration dearest Gilberto feels will pass
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43512.html
**I think this discussion is getting very frustrating because people seem
unwilling to understand what I�m saying**
And know thou that He indeed resembleth the sun. Were the risings of the sun
to continue till the end that hath no end, yet there hath not been nor ever
will be more than one sun; and were its settings to endure for evermore,
still there hath not been nor ever will be more than one sun. It is this
Primal Will [al-MASHIYYAT AL-AWWALIYYA] which appeareth resplendent in every
Prophet and speaketh forth in every revealed Book. IT KNOWETH NO BEGINNING,
INASMUCH AS THE FIRST DERIVETH ITS FIRSTNESS FROM IT; AND KNOWETH NO END,
FOR THE LAST OWETH ITS LASTNESS UNTO IT.
In the time of the First Manifestation the Primal Will appeared in
Adam; in the day of Noah It became known in Noah; in the day of Abraham in
Him; and so in the day of Moses; the day of Jesus; the day of Muhammad, the
Apostle of God; the day of the `Point of the Bayan'; the day of Him Whom God
shall make manifest [Baha�u�llah]; .. Hence the inner meaning of the words
uttered by the Apostle of God, `I am all the Prophets', INASMUCH AS WHAT
SHINETH RESPLENDENT IN EACH ONE OF THEM HATH BEEN AND WILL EVER REMAIN THE
ONE AND THE SAME SUN.
(The Bab: Selections from the Bab, Page: 126)
Please God illumine our eyes.
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