Dear Richard, Sorry, I didn't mean to instruct others on how these matters are to be understood. Rather, I would like to share my own impressions received from considering Michael's quotes.
Although it doesn't make sense to me, I suppose the Guardian may have always understood these to be different Catholic doctrines (Immaculate Conception of Mary's soul as distinguished from Virgin Conception/Birth of Christ's body) and yet he may nonetheless have chosen to use the phase "immaculate conception" to mean the miraculous virgin conception of Christ's body, but it makes more sense to me that initially the Guardian considered the phrase "Immaculate Conception" as another way to refer to the Virgin Conception of Christ's body and learned later the differences between the two Catholic doctrines of "Immaculate Conception" versus "Virgin Birth". At any rate, it looks to me like the Guardian never intended to affirm the Catholic doctrine of the immaculate conception of Mary's soul or that Mary was uniquely exempted from Original Sin. As far as I know, the Baha'i teachings do not affirm the Catholic doctrine of Original Sin. But I suppose I could be mistaken on all counts. --- Vaughn -----Original Message----- From: Richard H. Gravelly So, from Michael's quotation #7 we are to understand that it was understood initially that Immaculate Conception and Virgin Birth meant the same thing? Now we know that there was some confusion about the matter and that the Virgin Birth is the only birth resulting from immaculate conception. Is that correct? Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vaughn Sheline" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Baha'i Studies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:10 AM Subject: RE: Questions concerning "Immaculate Conception" My dictionary defines immaculate as follows, im�mac�u�late (adj.) 1. Impeccably clean; spotless. 2. Free from stain or blemish; pure. 3. Free from fault or error: an immaculate record. 4. Having no markings. In the early (prior to 1948) letters of the Guardian, by references to the "Immaculate Conception", it seems what was really meant was only reference to the Virgin Birth of Christ being immaculate in the sense of being "spotless" and "pure" and a miracle performed by the Holy Spirit, and not according to the Catholic doctrine that Mary herself was miraculously exempted from Original Sin beginning from the time of the conception of Mary's soul. I think the Baha'i teachings do not uphold the Catholic doctrine of Original Sin, much less that Jesus' mother Mary was miraculously exempted from Original Sin, and the immaculate conception (meaning only "virgin birth") applies only to Jesus: "We believe that Christ only was conceived immaculately." (From Michael's quotation number 7, written on behalf of the Guardian in 1945) It looks to me like by 1948 the Guardian came to understand that, in Catholic doctrine, Mary's "immaculate conception" refers *not* to Mary's immaculate conception of Christ but instead to God's immaculate conception of Mary's soul, and the Guardian upheld only the Virgin Birth of Christ, not the immaculacy of Mary's soul: 'At the time when you and your dear husband came into the Faith the teachings were not as fully translated as they are now, and there were many misapprehensions regarding certain matters. One of them seems to have been the "Immaculate Conception" or what we really mean is the Virgin Birth (for the two are different.) The Master clearly writes in a Tablet that Christ was *not* begotten in the ordinary way, but by the Holy Spirit. So we must accept this. Every Faith has some miracles, and this is the great miracle of the Christian Faith.' (from Michael's quotation number 7, written on behalf of the Guardian in 1948) Best regards, --- Vaughn ---------- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
