On Apr 19, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Rob Dixon wrote: > On 19/04/2011 16:00, Peter Scott wrote: >> >> If anything is clear from that FAQ it is that the intention is to avoid >> flames on this list. Casey and Kevin appear to have stopped monitoring >> this group some time ago, though. > > I have raised the issue of bullying with the moderators in past years. > The reaction was that, since Randal had such valuable input, it was > appropriate to let it drop. [...] the decision has let through the flood > of bad manners for so long that it is now entrenched in the life of the > list.
That's useful information to have, and I'll adjust my own expectations accordingly. Lest it get lost in the noise: the majority of contributors to this list appear to just "get it" when it comes to common courtesy. They don't seem to need to have it defined or mandated. I, for one, really appreciate that. I think that the FAQ should be updated, though: first, strike "in a friendly atmosphere" from item 2.1. That's just meaningless ad copy if there's no one moderating. Then, add something to the effect that part of the purpose of the list is to acquaint beginners with the culture of advanced, professional programming; as such, they should not be surprised or offended if they feel as if they're being treated "harshly" at times for their mistakes; that it's simply for their own good -- "like being slapped away from a hot stove" as it has been compared to. This is how it is. Growing a thick skin is a necessity if you want to survive in the world of Pro programming, where there won't necessarily be anyone to comfort or protect you - and if you can't live with that, you may not feel safe using this list and may, in fact, wish to rethink your career aspirations. Based on some of what I've read, that would be a truer depiction of the intent of the list, wouldn't it? Rudeness, curtness, callowness, harshness, truthiness . . . call it what you want, but it is currently acceptable on the list, so we shouldn't claim "friendliness" in the FAQ. Be upfront about setting expectations. For what it's worth: I occasionally tutor medical professionals and linguists who are in Vanderbilt grad school studying bioinformatics, in intro Computer Programming (C++ and Java thus far, but Perl soon, I expect, for obvious reasons). They are NOT going to be professional software engineers; nor are they hobbyists. I had thought that I would encourage them to learn to use beginners@perl, but since my reputation as a tutor is based on the fact that I'm patient and gentle (my students are mostly women), I'm less inclined to steer them in this particular direction, at least without fair warning. Chap -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: beginners-unsubscr...@perl.org For additional commands, e-mail: beginners-h...@perl.org http://learn.perl.org/
