Hi Sergey, Thank to listen to my opinion! I hope it will have his weight between all other one ;) Like you said, maybe the best solution would be a slider (to give the % of alpha level) or an option to be able to view the constructive modifiers and/or hide the base mesh.
About combinations of modifiers, I remember playing with Lattice and Armature modifier + Sculpt in Blender 2.4x. But it was in exceptionnal cases. For me, the most commun cases are Subsuf and Subsurf+Mirror modifier. I'll come back to you If I find other. cheers, Ronan Zeegers /*Postprod 2D/3D* + 32 (0) 473 45 20 43 www.ronanzeegers.com / Le 21/04/2011 13:42, Sergey I. Sharybin a écrit : > Ronan Zeegers wrote: >> Hello Sergey, >> >> Why not keeping the old approach for the subsurf and mirror modifier? >> Like you said, at least supporting some simple cases. >> The intuitiveness of this approach seems to be subjective. > Current approach was introduced becaue plenty of artists missed > predictable sculpting on armatured mesh and to implement this i had to > disable old behaviour (otherwise, things can't be predictable enough and > both of implementation/working as user was quite difficult task) >> To defend the old behavior, I think that a 3D artist know that he is >> scuplting/moving vertex of the base mesh. Not the "virtual" vertex of >> the subsurf/mirrored/displaced mesh. >> It never disturbed me to not moving the shape because I was not clicking >> in an area where there was vertex. > It's just two different cases which can't live togeter well, but current > implementation could be used as "basis" for easier re-implement old > behaviour for constructive modifier. > > Actually, i don't think it's contructive to continue discussion like > "things were cool, now it's not so cool" -- it's different cases and > returning of (at least some of) constructive modifiers is in my > sculpting todo list. I'd prefer to collect as much opinions as it's > possible to find out which behaviour should be used by default, which > additional modes should be added and so on (everything, which could help > to make sculpting in blender useful for wide audience of artists). > > Currently, me and Tom (a.k.a Letterrip) dicussed this things and we > found that re-implementing my old derived-cage patch would help a lot > with supporting constructive modifiers. Idea is the same as it used for > edit mode: draw final shape solid and mesh, which is actually editing be > half-transparent. It wouldn't be helpful for case of deformation > modifiers because things are becaming much more difficult to see in the > screen, but should work fine for constructive modifiers and also it'll > help to visualize "sculpting layer" for difficult cases. > > Personally, i don't think supporting of constructive mosidiers should be > enabled by default -- i'd prefer to have things enabled by default if > their behaviour is well predictable. Maybe i'm wrong, but it'll be > simple to change. Also, that half-transparent derived cage could be > toggleable, so it could be easily hidden. > > P.S. Maybe i forgot to mention that disabling all constructive modifiers > gives advantage in case of mixed constructive/deformation modifiers in > the stack. In this case i'll see quite final shape of object (maybe > without vonstructed elements as mirrored part and so on), but shape > itself is final. > P.P.S. Difference from previous implementation of derived-cage patch, > this half-transparent part could be crated from mesh with applying all > leading deformation modifiers. Maybe it'll be useful. I just not sure > about which combinations of modifiers are actually used by artists -- > but you could help me with it ;) >> cheers, >> >> Ronan Zeegers >> /*Postprod 2D/3D* >> + 32 (0) 473 45 20 43 >> www.ronanzeegers.com / >> >> >> Le 21/04/2011 09:45, Sergey I. Sharybin a écrit : >>> Looks like it was implemented in 2.49 exactly in the same way as it >>> was before enabling sculpting on deformed mesh in 2.5 and i don't find >>> it intuitive. >>> >>> I'm not sure what do you mean "properly" -- i can't make strokes on >>> mirrored part of mesh. And what about sculpting on deformed/armatured mesh? >>> >>> Problem that we can't deal with all kinds of modifier stack content and >>> now we allow only that modifiers, which could be handled ~100% correct. >>> Of course, we could support simple cases like Bse mesh -> mirror -> >>> subsurf or Base mesh -> armature, but cases like Base mesh -> mirror >>> -> >>> armature can't be handled correct. And things could be much more >>> complicated here and you've got no idea where stroke happens (even in >>> 2.49 troke isn't happening on that point of subdivided default cube -- >>> try to grab vertex -- it's movenment would be "delayed", it's because of >>> distance between dragging vertex and prush posiiton). >>> >>> That's why ide of sculpt cage was burn -- just to visualize kinda >>> "sculpting level" which is used for brushes just to make things more >>> clear about where sculpting happens. Otherwise, in a bit more >>> complicated modifier stack you should be making strokes far from place >>> you want to add some displacement. It's not intuitive at all. >>> >>> Matt Ebb wrote: >>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Sergey I. Sharybin<[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Ronan! >>>>> >>>>> Yep, you're right -- constructive modifiers (like array, mirror, >>>>> subsurf,...) were disabled when sculpting. This was made to make >>>>> sculpting more obvious and enable sculpting on deformed mesh. >>>> I forget the issues involved here, but I recall sculpting (modifying >>>> base level mesh, as you would in edit mode) with mirror and subsurf on >>>> was supported properly in 2.49 - a modeller friend I've worked with >>>> relied on this a lot - using the sculpt tools to tweak poly modelled >>>> objects. What's the difference between how it worked in 2.49 and now? >>>> is it possible at all to restore similar functionality as 2.49? >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bf-committers mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
