I have to admit I hadn't considered or encountered some of the situations described yet (such as toggling between global and local axis after typing in a number). Seems this is indeed quite the tricky issue to get right.
-Patrick > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 20:17:13 -0400 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad > scroll-to-zoom > > For reference, this is a thread on BA where quite a bit of the blow up > occurred: > > > http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?325379-2-70-Modal-Numinput-Rant > > There are about 5 pages there, but the short version is this: the 'old way' > was/is so frequently used that using a modifier key to invert became a pretty > huge hindrance for them. It's a bit more than "just" muscle memory. The > argument is that 'simple' mode is more frequently what people want to do, so > it > should be the easiest to access. > > I'm not going to weigh in one way or the other... other than to say that when > advanced mode was the only mode, I did often find myself adding a quick "*-1" > at the end of things when I needed to invert. Somehow that felt faster than > Ctrl+-. > > -Jason > > patrick boelens <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Whoops, at some point I forgot to check and accidentally sent this to > > Bastien > > only. Below is our conversation so far. > > > > Cheers! > > Patrick > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad > > scroll-to-zoom Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 20:48:37 +0100 > > > > > > > > > > Wow, really? With advanced mode it would still be possible to just start > > typing -3.14, so the only "regression" would be the muscle memory adaption > > of > > - to ctrl+- right? I haven't seen this discussion, but perhaps part of the > > frustration was because the invert key was now hidden? If that is the case, > > a > > tooltip might help with that I think? Anyone who was against this change > > care > > to weigh in? > > > > -Patrick > > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 19:16:29 +0100 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad > > scroll-to-zoom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meh… Originally, there was only the advanced mode (old simple one > > being completely removed), but there was such a roaring I had to add > > back simple-mode-like feature, so that people could keep using XYZ/- > > etc. keys without ctrl by default... :/ > > > > > > > > So, eeeh… would be wary making advanced mode default again! > > > > > > > > On 21/03/2014 18:22, patrick boelens > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Alright, I'll write up a ticket for that after > > dinner. > > > > > > > > As for the message, right now this feature is completely hidden. > > Just thinking out loud here, but what if we did something like > > the following: > > > > > > > > - Start all numinputs in advanced mode (if applicable) > > > > - '-' and '/' simply add the oprators (characters) > > > > - Shift+- and Shift+/ invert of set the whole input to 1/N > > > > > > > > We could then have a simple (short) message like: > > > > > > > > "D: [2+5|] = 7 (7.0000) along global Y | Shift+Minus: Invert > > input, Shift+Slash: Divide(?) input" > > > > > > > > It wouldn't list all the features, but at least it would give an > > easy, comprehensive overview of the basic features for number > > input. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > -Patrick > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 18:12:27 +0100 > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch > > trackpad scroll-to-zoom > > > > > > > > Eeeeh… cannot confirm that issue (for me, once backspace has > > erased whole text, next press quit numinput, so you can drag > > again object with the mouse). So yes, maybe a new ticket, with > > exact steps and small .blend file to reproduce the issue would > > be cool! :) > > > > > > > > As for help… well, thing is, it would made the message way too > > long. I could change e.g. [] for simple mode, {} for advanced > > one, small things like that, but going further will need some > > more general UI changes (as you said, messages like walk/fly > > mode or complex editmode tools are insane, not to mention they > > usually do not reflect changes in custom keymaps, etc.)! > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bastien > > > > > > > > On 21/03/2014 18:04, patrick > > boelens wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I just made a fresh build and it works like a > > charm! Thanks Bastien!! =D > > > > > > > > The only remaining bug I found is that pressing backspace > > in advanced mode when there are no characters left it > > keeps adding a constant number (0.5828). > > > > > > > > I.e.: (| = cursor. Backspace pressed after each line.) > > > > 2+2| > > > > 2+| > > > > 2| > > > > | > > > > 0.5828 > > > > 1.1656 > > > > ... > > > > > > > > Would you like me to make a ticket based on this? > > > > > > > > On a different (usability) note, I believe the UI should > > probably mention both the mode it's currently in, as well > > available keys (similar to things like the Knife tool > > e.g.). I.e.: > > > > > > > > "D: [2+5|] = 7 (7.0000) along global Y | Advanced Input | > > Equals Key: Toggle input mode, Left/Right Arrow Keys: Move > > input cursor, ...". > > > > > > > > This would probably be part of the UI changes and illicit > > some debate though, so I'm guessing this one's probably > > worthy of a ticket either way. ;) > > > > > > > > On a sidenote, I hope I didn't sound too negative here; > > I'm truly happy with this functionality! =) > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Patrick > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:59:15 +0100 > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > CC: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and > > Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom > > > > > > > > > > I did fix three different issues today (commit > > 7148c97796723)… ;) > > > > > > > > > > On 21/03/2014 16:47, patrick boelens wrote: > > > > > > Hey Bastien, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the heads-up; I totally missed that > > one! There are some bugs/ problems with it it seems (?), > > but that could very well just be my build. I'll try > > updating and submit a ticket if the problems persist. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:08:43 +0100 > > > > > >> From: [email protected] > > > > > >> To: [email protected] > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input > > and Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Hi Patrick, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Regarding point 1), you might want to have > > a look at 2.70 release notes… > > > > > >> > > > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Release_Notes/2.70/UI#Transform_Tools_Number_Input > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Cheers, > > > > > >> Bastien > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 21/03/2014 02:57, patrick boelens > > wrote: > > > > > >>> Hi everyone! > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> A long, long time ago I've made two > > changes to Blender that made my life easier. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 1) Math in number input. This allowed > > me to input things like Z 360/32*7 > > > > > >>> to rotate an object on the Z-axis by > > 78.75 degrees; or 7 segments of a > > > > > >>> default UV Sphere for instance. This > > was also extremely useful for > > > > > >>> quickly manually placing duplicates in > > (part of) a circle. Just set the > > > > > >>> pivot point to the 3D cursor and type > > ctrl+D R Z 360/7 6 times to get it done! > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 2) Multi-touch scroll-to-zoom. > > Currently multi-touch enabled devices automatically > > > > > >>> default to two-finger-scroll for > > rotating and pinch for zooming. This patch added a > > toggle that set > > > > > >>> two-finger-scroll to zoom. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> The code for both these areas has > > > > > >>> changed significantly, so I've just > > stayed on 2.67 until now. However, I > > > > > >>> am beginning to miss being able to > > play with new all the new features, > > > > > >>> so I'd kind of like to upgrade now. ;) > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Before I spend a lot of > > > > > >>> time implementing a new haphazard hack > > however, I was wondering if > > > > > >>> perhaps a core dev would be willing to > > take a look at this. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Number one is really more of a > > wishlist item to me, though it is probably a very useful > > tool to have, and would also fit well with the current > > system now that we can already type 4-1.3 for instance. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Scroll-to-zoom, however, is an > > absolute deal-breaker for me. As I have a physical > > handicap that affects the stance of my hands, pinching > > is a very slow and difficult operation for me to > > perform. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> I've tried setting View3D's zoom to > > Mouse/Trackpad Rotate in the preferences, but this > > didn't work properly either. Perhaps these events could > > be separated into more generic commands that don't > > already imply/ affect a function? I.e.: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Trackpad Rotate -> Trackpad Scroll > > > > > >>> Trackpad Zoom -> Trackpack Pinch > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Alright, this mail's long enough as-is > > methinks. Looking forward to a reply! > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Cheers, > > > > > >>> Patrick > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>> Bf-committers mailing list > > > > > >>> [email protected] > > > > > >>> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Bf-committers mailing list > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Bf-committers mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > _______________________________________________ > Bf-committers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
