On Apr 25, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Wolfgang Licht wrote:
Because you're not required to wait. Pedestrians can legally proceed
against the light if the coast is clear.
Since this was completely contrary to what I remember the rules being,
but I certainly can't keep up with everything our various legislators
manage to come up with, I had to look it up.
FYI: the Wisconsin Department of Transportation has a we page focused
on traffic rules that affect pedestrians:
http://www.dot.state.wi.us/safety/motorist/pedestrians/rules.htm
I find two relevant pieces of code (both quoted below).
346.23 is somewhat ambiguous about what a pedestrian is supposed to do
at a light (but very clear that they always have the right of way over
a vehicle when crossing on the Walk signal.
346.38, on the other hand seems utterly clear on this topic: "No
pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive
mobility device may start to cross the roadway or other vehicular
crossing in the direction of a "Don't Walk" signal"
As to the original topic of Stop vs Yield, I believe the most
important part of regulations affecting bicycles is the part that says
that Bicycles are considered vehicles with all of the rights and
responsibilities of other vehicles, except for a small and well
defined list of special provisions. This is the thing that gives the
bike riders some recourse (legal and otherwise) against those who
believe that bicycles belong on dedicated paths and should just get
out of the way of bigger, faster vehicles.
Anything that reduces the impression that bicycles are vehicles and
belong on the road, either legally, or in the mind of the general
public, is, I believe, a very bad thing for bike riders (just look at
the in-line skate people, some of whom I have a hard time keeping up
with on my bicycle, who are not considered vehicles, and who's legal
access to roadways is extremely limited -- this is not where I want to
see bicycles wind up).
The provision that allows bicycles to go through a red light (after
stopping) under certain circumstances, was just a reaction to traffic
lights being put on sensors that don't detect bicycles and aren't on a
timed cycle at all -- leaving legitimate vehicles stuck in the middle
of the road indefinitely was not a viable situation. This condition
does not apply at all to stop signs.
Now the real question here is that given the number of motorized
vehicle drivers that seem to consider slowing down to 15 mph at a stop
sign to be "stopping"... defining anything a bicycle does at the
intersection "blowing through" seems a bit of a stretch :-)
Jay
346.23: Crossing controlled intersection or crosswalk.
(1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is controlled by
traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the
operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or
to a person who is riding a bicycle or electric
personal assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent
with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians,
who has started to cross the highway on a green or "Walk" signal and
in all other cases pedestrians, bicyclists, and
riders of electric personal assistive mobility devices shall yield the
right-of-way to vehicles lawfully proceeding
directly ahead on a green signal. No operator of a vehicle proceeding
ahead on a green signal may begin a turn at a
controlled intersection or crosswalk when a pedestrian, bicyclist, or
rider of an electric personal assistive mobility
device crossing in the crosswalk on a green or "Walk" signal would be
endangered or interfered with in any way. The
rules stated in this subsection are modified at intersections or
crosswalks on divided highways or highways provided
with safety zones in the manner and to the extent stated in sub. (2).
(2) At intersections or crosswalks on divided highways or highways
provided with safety zones where traffic is
controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the
operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a
pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive
mobility device who has started to cross the roadway
either from the near curb or shoulder or from the center dividing
strip or a safety zone with the green or "Walk" signal
in the favor of the pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric
personal assistive mobility device.
346.38: Pedestrian control signals. Whenever special pedestrian
control signals exhibiting the words "Walk" or
"Don't Walk" are in place, such signals indicate as follows:
(1) Walk. A pedestrian, or a person riding a bicycle or electric
personal assistive mobility device in a manner which
is consistent with the safe use of the crossing by pedestrians, facing
a "Walk" signal may proceed across the roadway
or other vehicular crossing in the direction of the signal and the
operators of all vehicles shall yield the right-of-way to
the pedestrian, bicyclist, or electric personal assistive mobility
device rider.
(2) Don't walk. No pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric
personal assistive mobility device may start to cross
the roadway or other vehicular crossing in the direction of a "Don't
Walk" signal, but any pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider
of an electric personal assistive mobility device who has partially
completed crossing on the "Walk" signal may
proceed to a sidewalk or safety zone while a "Don't Walk" signal is
showing.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Eric Westhagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
Dear Group,
Bikes are much more like fast moving pedestrians than they are like
cars. And
motorcycles should be treated no differently than cars. (I have
referred to small
cars as "enclosed motorcycles" since they came on the scene.)
That said, as has been pointed out here, yielding only in
controlled intersections
is not self evident to most. Even if it makes no practical sense to
stop,
particularly when a bicycle can cause little damage to cars and
would be held
responsible, a large portion of regulation might have had a valid
purpose, but in
practice disadvantages more than it helps.
I am probably one of the few you might see standing at a light-
controlled
intersection without a car in sight----waiting for the "light" to
allow me to
"walk." When I finally get my feet in motion, I say to myself, "Why
didn't you
walk--dummy?"
So, that is the rub. If pedestrians are supposed to stand there on
an empty street
waiting for the orange--"wait" to turn to the new command--"walk",
how can the case
be made for bicycles to not do the same silly thing?
Eric Westhagen
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