After reading Larry Nelson's response and comments about the "protected" bike lanes, aka cycle tracks http://www.portlandonline.com/mayor/index.cfm?c=52503
I feel it's necessary to make it explicit that all my previous comments assumed that the bike lane in question is the traditional, non-protected one (i.e. merely a white line painted on the street). This discussion makes it very clear why many cyclists (or potential cyclists) find buffered or protected bike lanes far safer and more enticing than the conventional ones. Chuck Strawser Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner Commuter Solutions Transportation Services UW-Madison Room 124 WARF 610 Walnut St Madison WI 53726 608-263-2969 www.wisc.edu/trans -----Original Message----- From: Eric White [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:57 AM To: STRAWSER, Charles Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Bikies] Public Hearing to Discuss Segoe Rd. Protected BikeLane Extension I believe the lane in question best fits your first example. The lane looks much like the one shown in this link, only the lane is wider - wide enough to drive a car in: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bike/bikeLanes.html. There seem to be substantial number of right turns onto Mineral Point from Segoe, but there apparently not enough to justify moving the bike lane to the left of the auto lane. Thanks Chuck. Eric On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 9:42 AM, STRAWSER, Charles <[email protected]> wrote: > I think it's a good question. And this is a good place to discuss it, as I > think a forum for motorists would mostly conclude an arguably correct answer > but because of the wrong reasons. > > I'm not that familiar with the area being discussed, so I'll speak in general > terms here: > > If the bike lane is intended for through (not turning) cyclists, then it's > arguable perfectly reasonable and legal for a car to sit in the bike lane > while waiting to turn right on red. After all, a bicyclist who wanted to go > straight would have to wait for the green light anyway. This is why many bike > lanes in this situation would go from a solid white land to a dashed white > line as they approach the intersection, which helps to indicate merging > traffic. > > On the other hand, that would not be the ideal street design. If the lane is > intended for through cyclists, and there are a lot of (Motor Vehicle) right > turns there, then the lane should be striped to the left of a right turn lane > (that could be used by both MVs and cyclists, of course). > > But there may not be room at this location for everything, which means a > decision is made to better allocate space on the street to some movements > over others. Typically allocation is made according to the majority of > existing movements, but of course this tends to enforce the negative feedback > loop of - no bicyclists (or pedestrians) here, so no (more or better) > facilities needed for them here. > > Chuck Strawser > Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner > Commuter Solutions > Transportation Services > UW-Madison > Room 124 WARF > 610 Walnut St > Madison WI 53726 > 608-263-2969 > www.wisc.edu/trans > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric White > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 10:36 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Bikies] Public Hearing to Discuss Segoe Rd. Protected BikeLane > Extension > > I don't mean for it to be counterproductive. I'm a year-round bike > commuter. I also sometimes drive a car on Segoe. And I'm pretty sure > I'm not the only one who sometimes drives this street who is honestly > confused as to the proper driver behavior at this intersection. > Asking a list, say, devoted to driving a car would probably give me a > "sure, why couldn't you sit in the bike lane?" response. I thought > folks here might have a more insightful (read "correct") answer. > > My apologies if that's counterproductive. > > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 10:27 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> You know, as a bikie list serve this question seems counterproductive. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric White >> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:45 PM >> To: William Obermeyer >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Bikies] Public Hearing to Discuss Segoe Rd. Protected Bike >> Lane Extension >> >> Ha. Sorry. Should have noted that my question assumes I'm driving, >> not pedaling here. Can I sit in a car in the bike lane hear and turn >> right on red? >> >> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:41 PM, William Obermeyer >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> There's already a bike lane stub that begins just before the Segoe-Mineral >> Point intersection, and whether you can make a safe right on red is a >> function of the traffic, which is often heavy. There's some danger of a >> right-hook, but _most_ drivers I've encountered seem aware of the problem. >>> Even so, I wouldn't do it. I find that stretch of Mineral Point so >> miserable for bike riding, and the Mineral Point-Midvale intersection so >> unfriendly (on Mineral Point) that I'd sturn right on Keating and take that >> eastbound. Even though there's no light at the Keating-Midvale >> intersection, it feels more bike friendly (to me) than the Mineral Point - >> Midvale intersection. >>> (Note: I have not had any problems making right turns from the bike lane >> on Segoe north of MPRd - presumably the model for the proposed bike lanes >> south of MPRd) >>> >>> On Jul 8, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Eric White wrote: >>> >>>> I have a question about this bike lane. If I'm heading N on Segoe and >>>> I want to turn R on Mineral Point, can I wait in the bike lane and >>>> turn right on red there? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Amanda White <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>> The City is seeking public feedback on extending the Segoe Rd. separated >>>>> bike lane past Mineral Point Road to Odana Road. This would eliminate a >>>>> through traffic lane in both directions on Segoe. >>>>> >>>>> It's a great opportunity and I hope some of you will be able to attend >> and >>>>> voice your support of this project. >>>>> >>>>> Wed. July 13 >>>>> 6:30pm >>>>> Westwood Christian Church >>>>> 5210 Odana Rd. >>>>> >>>>> Amanda >>>>> ________________________ >>>>> Amanda White >>>>> Associate Director >>>>> Bicycle Federation of Wisconsin >>>>> (608) 251-4456 >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> www.bfw.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Bikies mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bikies mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bikies mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
