Grant I think another way to consider this is speed and forward visibility; particularly at the O.B. Sherry Park bridge. Due to the sharp corners at the bridge, visibility for oncoming traffic is severely limited. Not all cyclists have the honed reflexes you have to avoid potential collisions with traffic, the bridge or landscape. Nor do I believe that faster traffic has a right or obligation to pass slower traffic or zoom through constricted areas at all times. If you have time to travel, you have time to wait a moment until it's clear to go. Like you I can bicycle and tricycle at walking speed but that doesn't mean I have to demonstrate my prowess at my impatient whim. Respectfully, Darryl -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 8/29/14, Grant Foster <[email protected]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Bikies] Southwest Path Intersection Curb Ramp Work To: "Fernandez, Anthony" <[email protected]> Cc: "S. Morris Rose" <[email protected]>, "Bikies" <[email protected]> Date: Friday, August 29, 2014, 1:06 PM I get what you're saying, Tony, but I don't think walking your bike makes you any safer and I'm not familiar with any regulation related to walking bikes through a narrow roadway. This same sign was used at the O.B. Sherry Bridge while the Cap City was closed two winters ago. I believe it was installed for the same purpose: it's very difficult or impossible for two cyclists to pass each other on the bridge. But as tough as it is for two cyclists to pass each other on that narrow bridge, it's IMPOSSIBLE for two cyclists to walk their bikes past each other. The point is, pay attention and you may need to yield the way if you try and enter this narrow space at the time someone else does. Walking your bike doesn't facilitate that at all except that it might lower your speed of travel. I'm perfectly capable of riding my bike at walking speed and can maneuver myself and my vehicle much better when I'm on it than when I'm walking beside it. If anything I may need to stop and wait, but proceeding on foot isn't going to help anyone. In the other (motor) vehicle world, we would have a flagger to direct the flow of traffic. Since path users travel at low speeds and typically don't do much damage to each other in the event of a collision, it doesn't make a ton of sense to pay for that--yes, we can manage on our own. But asking me or telling me to walk by bike doesn't help; if anything it just increases my footprint and makes congestion worse. Grant On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Fernandez, Anthony <[email protected]> wrote: Grant, I get that the imperative could rub people wrong. But in standard traffic signage there is a clear distinction between regulatory (Stop, Yield, No Turn On Red, etc) and advisory (caution road work ahead or pictorial signs for curvy road ahead, etc) signs. In this case, the intent really is regulatory. A person who rides through a narrow constricted area is not only endangering him/herself but is also endangering approaching bikes and pedestrians. In a perfect world all bikers would be alert, courteous and considerate of others as well as self-protective. Ditto for automobile drivers. But in practice there seems to be a need for regulation as well as advice. But really, I think the reason this is a hot button for bikers is that there are too many instances where a Walk Bikes sign is in place for no good reason. Either the contractor has installed these at either end of a long project with only intermittent constrictions, or left the signs in place when there is no active construction, or maybe the situation did not warrant it in the first place. I really get that frustration, and do what I can on my projects to use such signage only where needed. Tony Fernandez [email protected] voice: 608-266-9219 fax: 608-264-9275 From: Grant Foster [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 12:07 PM To: Fernandez, Anthony Cc: S. Morris Rose; Nelson, Larry; Bikies Subject: Re: [Bikies] Southwest Path Intersection Curb Ramp Work That made me smile, Tony:) I agree it's important to keep things in perspective and I'm surprised at how much spit and vinegar comes out of many bikies. Perhaps some more pedaling is in order to release some of that built up stress and anxiety. On the other hand... I do get how the "Walk Bikes" sign/verbiage is a little unsettling for folks. I think you did a great job of articulating the practical reality of the construction and the fact that caution needs to be exercised by cyclists on the path during construction. I think what folks object to is the imperative to "Walk Bikes". Something like "Caution: Road Work Ahead" or "One Lane Only" could probably communicate the same thing without the risk of bike users feeling belittled. I don't think the city nor the contractors really care if people walk their bikes or not, they just want to help warn folks of the construction and try and prevent collisions. I don't think cyclists are at all put out to have to slow down, be careful and maybe even walk their bikes (if they choose) as the roadways are reconstructed. Most of us are accustomed to managing our two-wheeled vehicles without incident on busy paths and around unexpected obstacles even without the benefit of any signage (and usually without walking our bikes). Not sure if other communities have found other signage that might do the job with less perceived insult. I do appreciate that the work is being done in a way to keep the path open and I'm looking forward to the new concrete. I hope everyone enjoys a long weekend! Grant On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Fernandez, Anthony <[email protected]> wrote: Friends in the bike community, Chill. Where the City is replacing the bike ramps it is being done half at a time so that bike and pedestrian traffic can continue to use the path. But in those intersections under construction the remaining ramp area will be less than half its current width. On a path with more than 3000 users per day, common sense, courtesy for other bikers and legal requirements all coincide: two bikes going in opposite directions cannot pass each other safely in a space less than 5 feet wide. We have directed our contractor to place the WALK BIKES signs immediately in advance of the actual constrictions, not for the entire length of path. Nor are we discouraging anyone from using the path. I am sorry to see such harsh words over what is what is such a simple, commonsense precaution to keep people from biking head-on into each other. Tony Fernandez [email protected] voice: 608-266-9219 fax: 608-264-9275 From: Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of S. Morris Rose Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:25 PM To: Nelson, Larry Cc: Bikies Subject: Re: [Bikies] Southwest Path Intersection Curb Ramp Work I know, huh? If Rewey says it, I, for one, rush out to do it without applying any of that judgment stuff I've heard about. Just back from fucking myself, for example. Felt funny doing it... Here in Vancouver, the Off-Broadway bike path - the most-used path in the city - has been seeing construction all summer. Mostly, that's meant that two or three blocks are under active construction, which means that cyclists need to pop over to the lane (think "alley") for those blocks, which isn't too bad - motor vehicles also have to shift routes, though thankfully few choose the lanes. But the entire length of it through Kitsilano is closed with signs that read "Cyclists - dismount and walk on sidewalk." I know of few cyclists that will walk their bikes for two miles because a sign absurdly says so. To the credit of planners, there is a marked detour down an adjacent street two blocks north, which I took today for the first time. Directly next to the detour signage in one of the blocks were signs announcing that the road was closed for what looked like minor work easy to cycle past. There was no evidence that the irony of one sign directing cyclists to detour on a route di-fuckin'-rectly next to another warning us not to go there - both placed by the same agency - was apparent to the sign placers. It does seem to a civilian like myself that a principle of road signage is that it shouldn't put absurd requirements on road users - even bicyclists - just because it could conceivably cover some ass or other some day. What would be better would be if there was a safety smell test applied. That way, when road users see a sign telling them to take some action that inconveniences them, they can have some confidence that, yeah, probably it's smart to cycle around that or even dismount for a few steps. That would lead to the safest outcomes. Shouldn't that be the point of road signage? I think I get it, though. You need to work on a street, you need to put up a sign keeping people off it. The cost of putting up the sign is low, and the cost of not putting it up is high, and that's all that goes into the evaluation. After all, you're there to work on a road, not to coddle road users. And now I'd like to close with a shout-out to all a them construction company lawyers that are trolling bikies looking for the evidence they need to shut down our lawsuits. HI GUYS!!! SEE YOU IN COURT!!! On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Larry D. Nelson <[email protected]> wrote: Hopefully Brian, you will not be injured. But if you are, I suspect that the contractor's insurance carrier will be very grateful for your email. Rewey, you are a bad influence! From: Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Mink Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 5:52 PM To: Michael Rewey Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Bikies] Southwest Path Intersection Curb Ramp Work I generally ignore the "dismount and walk signs" and feel the same way that Mike does. When vehicle drivers have to walk their cars through construction zones I'll follow the same rule of the road for my bike. Brian Mink Michael Rewey August 28, 2014 at 5:28 PM I await the day when a construction announcement states that drivers will have to walk their cars through a construction zone. Mike Rewey On 28 Aug 2014 at 21:21, Ross, Arthur wrote: NOTICE: REVISED SCHEDULE ON PATH WORK - There will be construction work on the Southwest Path between Randall Ave and Park Street, beginning Tuesday, September 2 and continuing through Friday, September 5. The City´s sidewalk contractor will be replacing street ramps at various locations. Ramps will be replaced half at a time so that the path will remain open for use, but riders will have to dismount and walk bikes through the construction zones. Please be aware and use caution when riding or walking through this area. For questions contact Tony Fernandez in Engineering at [email protected]. Arthur Ross, Pedestrian-Bicycle Coordinator City of Madison Traffic Engineering Division 215 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd., Suite 100 PO Box 2986 Madison, WI 53701-2986 608/266-6225 _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org Ross, Arthur August 28, 2014 at 4:21 PM NOTICE: REVISED SCHEDULE ON PATH WORK - There will be construction work on the Southwest Path between Randall Ave and Park Street, beginning Tuesday, September 2 and continuing through Friday, September 5. The City's sidewalk contractor will be replacing street ramps at various locations. Ramps will be replaced half at a time so that the path will remain open for use, but riders will have to dismount and walk bikes through the construction zones. Please be aware and use caution when riding or walking through this area. For questions contact Tony Fernandez in Engineering at [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Arthur Ross, Pedestrian-Bicycle Coordinator City of Madison Traffic Engineering Division 215 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd., Suite 100 PO Box 2986 Madison, WI 53701-2986 608/266-6225 _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org -- Scott M. Rose West Point Grey, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Now in my third trimester _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
