OK, I'd like to clear up a few things for you. They probably won't improve your life much, but they may shed light on some things.
Compass directions have nothing to do with the sun, they are to do with the magnetic poles of the earth. If you imagine a lollipop (them balls of sugary stuff stuck on a stick), the poles are like the stick, if the stick were sticking all the way through. One point is the north pole, and the other is the south. Forget the fact that the earth is spinning and moving about the gaf, north is always north. Solar and galactic drift don't mean a thing unless you're in space, in which case I suspect you'd have bigger things to worry about. The thing that relies on the sun is a sundial, which is a flat surface with a stick poking up vertically out of it. As the earth spins, giving the illusion that it is moving around the earth (which it isn't), the shadow of the stick which appears on the opposite side of the stick to where the sun is shining moves around, looking like an analogue watch face with a single hand. Next we have multiple coordinate systems: The system we deal with on the earth is the polar coordinate system. You have a longitude and a latitude reading, which as far as I know mark coordinates from the centre of the earth. Let's forget that one for now, other than to say that's how GPS systems know where you are. The one you're talking about with x, y, and possibly z is what I believe is called the cartesian coordinates system. The reason the implementation of that one is so inconsistent is that you can define the coordinates however you like. The most common I have seen has east as increasing x while west decreases it, and north as increasing y as south decreases it. Up increases z while down decreases it. Whether or not 0, 0 is the centre of a thing, or the southwest corner is entirely dependent on the mapping system, usually as a product of how simple the creator of the game wants the coordinate system to be. In mathematics, the centre of a graph, AKA the origin lies at coordinates 0, 0. If you're using open AL I believe north is positive y, and z is east and west, but honestly, it's all baffling, because it can be whatever the coder wants it to be. Swamp has the worst implementation IMHO, where I believe north is positive y, and east is positive x... Completely against most other systems (unless I'm biased). If you can get hold of a full circle protractor, that may help, if you know what the lines mean. If you imagine you're standing in the hole at the centre, then to your right is 90 degrees of you, behind is 180, and left is 270. Right might not always be east, unless you're currently facing north. You face north, 90 degrees (going clockwise) is east, south is 180, and west is 270. If you turn 90 degrees to your right and face east, then the next 90 degrees is south at 180. Turn a further 45, then 90 degrees to your right is now 225 degrees southwest. This is why most 2d audio games pretend you're facing north the whole time. That doesn't work in real life, because you don't walk only forwards and backwards, then sidestep down adjacent hallways. Coordinate and directions systems are only as complex as the information you're trying to convey. You probably won't find your average FPS player talking about polar coordinates because they primarily care about 2d; particularly in audio gaming. Similarly, I'd bet the microsoft flight simulator uses polar coordinates, because they're trying to convey more information in a more concise manner than cartezian allows. Let's pretend for a terrible second that we could move through time. Then we'd need a coordinates system that would be exponentially worse, because you'd need a way of tracking a position in space and time (4d), and take into account galactic drift and all that good stuff. Think that's all the points I wanted to cover. Sorry for the massively long post. Really interesting thread people. I personally find it fascinating to hear others' difficulties with spatial awareness, as it's a topic which fascinates me. Also, if anyone is more mathematically minded than me, please feel free to correct any mistakes I've made. Most of the stuff I know about trig is in the form of formulae that I've copied from other people. I know how to use them in code, but I'm not entirely sure of the maths behind them. Take care, Chris Norman On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 at 19:15, Damien Garwood <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > This will be quite a long message, because I'm starting to realise just > how complicated spatial awareness can actually be. > This is a thing I've been struggling with for years. I only managed A > Hero's Call because following a beacon is like playing a reflex game. It > says north, you turn around until it says north. Even then though, > someone had to tell me that. I have no real understanding as to what > that means or where I'm going. In fact, during times when you can't rely > on beacons to get you places (like the goblin campsites and so on), > someone actually had to do that for me! > As for Tank Commander, if it weren't for Raul's playthrough, I would > have never beaten it. > Same in the real world, I always struggled with mobility. When I learned > a route it was a case of remembering a set of instructions. That's why I > often call it the "Bop-it dance" or the "Robot's dance". Think about > it...Walk 20, turn right, walk 10...Just a glorified algorithm. > If someone tells me to try and do the route in reverse, I wouldn't have > a clue. > You tell me to turn right, and I can do it. You ask me what's to the > left of me, or what direction are the stairs from my front door, I'd > have no idea, without physically going there. When my mum used to tell > me to get out of the car and walk round the back, I wouldn't know what > direction that was, because once I'm out of the car my direction has > changed. And then there's the big one. If cars are moving forwards then > why do they pan left to right? Or, if I'm sat in a vehicle that's > reversing, why does it feel like it's moving forwards? What am I told? > Surprise surprise, it's to do with directions again. And they all have > one thing in common - it's the direction your facing. > I always thought that, although I could move in a given direction, I > always struggled when I faced a different direction to what I'm used to. > My mum disagrees, and puts it like this: I don't have any "mental > mapping skills". Thinking about it, I guess I can say that's accurate. > I never know where I am relative to other things, or where they are > relative to me (Unless of course I can reach out and physically touch it). > I guess that's why I wasn't taught other forms of navigation. compass > directions are just a series of meaningless words to me. All I know is > that the compass has something to do with the sun. > And don't even get me started on the clockface...When I tried 3d > Velocity and it told me there was an enemy at 06:00, I actually went > looking in the manual for a way to check the gametime! Of course there's > nothing in there, then someone corrected me and said, no, it's > referencing direction, not time. As far as I know, I hit a button on my > clock or computer and it tells me the time. What on earth has that got > to do with directions? I guess the only thing I can think of is that > they say the past is behind you and the future is in front...Headache > tablets anyone? > I've also seen things like turning to 90 or 160 (they just sound like > arbitrary numbers to me). Eurofly deals with latitude longitude and > altitude. There just seems to be so much to consider with space. > I'd just say give me an x and a y coordinate. But then I've seen that in > different ways (0 0 being bottom left in some cases, and top left in > others, and then someone told me that could also refer to the centre > under some circumstances as well). Also I've had disputes in the past as > to whether the Y coordinate represents forwards and backwards, or up and > down. I always thought z was up and down, but they'd argue that when > you're talking 2d, y is up and down. But I thought if you're working > with 2d, you're talking about something that's flat (unless of course > you're playing BK3!) > Then, as if that wasn't enough, even my certainty about up and down came > into question a few months ago when I learned that the world was just a > big ball. In that case, people on the other side of the ball would say > that their up was our down...And then they told me the earth is > spinning, so our directions are always changing anyway...Sheesh! Thank > goodness we don't have that level of complexity in games! > Honestly. Sometimes I think I ought to have a physics degree if I'm > going to understand all this! And there was me thinking that spatial > awareness was meant to be a basic skill. > As it is, I'm determined to learn this. I've gone six or seven years > without any mobility training now because I just can't get my head > around it. Now I'm trying again, and I thought that if I can understand > how these games work, maybe it will improve my mental mapping skills and > thus my mobility training, and stop everyone getting impatient with me > and telling me what an idiot or slow learner I am. > Cheers, > Damien. > > On 27/07/2020 04:08 pm, Luke Hewitt wrote: > > I've found myself, that practicing has actually improved my ability to > > navigate in games. > > > > When I started with shades of doom and gma tank commander, I was having > > trouble, and it wasn't until I thought out the physical spacial > > awareness test myself that I managed to get my head around the idea, > > since my own comprehension of space is actually pretty crappy. > > > > > > What I do do though, both in games and rl, is to use landmarks as > > guides, sound sources, smells, and working out what direction I have to > > go from such and such is often a good way around. > > > > > > A hero's call I can't speak about as I've yet to get into that game, but > > I know in shades of doom, using the sound sources of the corridors and > > many of the tools already provided like coordinates and the reminders of > > where I've gone before, helped considerably. > > > > > > All the best, > > > > > > Dark. > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. 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