That's because you think the only screen reader in linux is orca. That's wrong. Running on console, espeak, espeak-ng, brltty, emacspeak, sbl and fenrir, yasr, are available. Before orca, other screen readers for the gui existed but they're deprecated now. It could be in a little while another gui screen reader will exist but it's in alpha stage now and not intended for public release. In Linux, learning the use of the command line gets you access to the power tools under the hood.
-- Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. On Mon, 3 Apr 2023, Tyler Wood wrote: > > Hi, > > I do fully agree that getting Linux experience is incredibly easy and there > are multiple ways. Spinning up a digital ocean instance for a few cents to > try command line or installing it on a > virtual machine, or even running the live cd/USBG thumb drive. I will say I > have run into other issues. > > > > I’m really curious on if the GUI and orca has evolved. > > Last time I tried Linux (Ubuntu 1804) I could use everything that came along > with the full distro (firefox, etc). Any time I tried using anything else > (team viewer, team talk, discord, Telegram) > Orca absolutely just hit a brick wall. No matter what commands I tried I > wasn’t able to actually get very many places – and when I was, it took far > more patience and workarounds than using windows > alternatives. I don’t blame the Linux operating system itself, I blame the > incredibly (at least based on my incredibly limited experience) convoluted > and seemingly incomprehensibly limited > commands and keystrokes of orca. Object review wasn’t really acting as object > review, screen review never worked reliably no matter what I tried. I’m using > NVDA references as that’s what I’m > familiar with and I have to guess that the reasoning behind this is due to, > as you stated, the incredibly low amount of those of us with no vision who > don’t use Linux on a daily basis. I think the > vast amount of distros can be great but also a huge detriment when it comes > to gaming. Having one library missing in a distro and if it isn’t smart > enough to grab it, you’re up that one creek > without a paddle unless you have the technical knowledge to manually grab > said library. This doesn’t happen very often especially if you use something > like Ubuntu, but nonetheless. Gaming on Linux > can be a real pita most especially with nvidia GPUs. > > > > I will maintain that Linux is superior when it comes to commandline and > server based administration. And while I’m sure it runs fantastic on a day to > day basis for very basic tasks, I’d love to > see Linux and the screen reader that is used along with it evolve so it is > more user friendly to beginners. Unless things have changed in the last 3 > years, I certainly can agree that, sure, Linux > can be used and installed easily enough. But after that it’s a bit of a laugh > if someone is trying to use the GUI and thinks they’re going to get anywhere > as quick as windows of any kind, be it > windows 7, 10, or 11. I also throw mac in this category as well – voiceover > commands are incredibly strange to me. Despite this, at least most third > party programs can be used and, at the very > least, it has OCR to be able to read screens and click on things that are not > accessible. > > I’d also love to be proven wrong on my previous point of using Linux, because > I really think it would be cool to do more with. Every time I’ve tried I’ve > always had pretty major issues that have > discouraged me from attempting to continue, mostly with Orca not cooperating > with programs I use on a daily basis whereas even Narrator in windows can at > least to some extent interface with them. > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows > > > > From: Travis Siegel > Sent: April 3, 2023 9:15 PM > To: blind-gamers@groups.io > Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Games expensive lately? > > > > Yeah, fair, but there's too many people that say they have no experience > > with linux, then come up with some silly reason why this is so. Linux > > is free, it runs on just about any pc or device you can think of, and > > it's been around longer than windows 95. Anyone who actually wants to > > have experience with linux can do so for free, and with very little > > setup if so desired. It's truly astounding the number of people who say > > they'd try linux if there was an easy to do so, then promptly ignore the > > fact that most linux distributions have cds you can buy or burn yourself > > that allow you to run a copy of linux without even installing it. It > > doesn't get any easier than that. Windows doesn't have that option, and > > yet, folks always complain linux is harder to learn, when in actual > > fact, the learning curve on linux isn't truly any worse than that of > > windows, especially since linux doesn't redesign it's operating system > > every few years making it difficult or impossible to find things you've > > been using for years. Windows does this all the time, and yet, folks > > continue using it, when in actuality, switching to linux is simpler now > > than it has ever been, what with skins that make your linux box look > > like a windows system. The amount of free software on linux dwarfs the > > free software on windows, and (finally), even companies are beginning to > > realize that the TCO (total cost of ownership for linux is only a small > > subset of the cost for running windows. And, yet, it still sits so > > under utilized by those who could benefit from it the most. > > > > There's truly no reason not to give linux a try these days. The biggest > > decision you need to make is which distro to try first. > > > > No reason why you can't try them all, though that would be a tall order, > > since there's so many of them, but it's certainly possible. Generally, > > I recommend ubuntu to folks who don't want to be bothered with fiddly > > details like keeping the system up to date, or don't know how to do most > > things on the computer. For those who are more tech savvy, I used to > > recommend slackware, but unfortunately, they haven't updated in a while, > > and although I still use it, I can't in good conscience recommend it to > > new users, even ones who want to know how it all works. For that, I'd > > suggest one of the mandrake distribution clones, although to be fair, > > Ubuntu really does do most of what a new linux user needs, even those > > who want to know how it all works, since you can use as many or as few > > of the we do it for you apps built in as you like. > > > > Linux has software to do just about anything you want. Even game > > creators are finally getting the idea that hey, with the game engines we > > use, we can release a linux version too, so that puts those complaints > > that there aren't any gamess for linux to bed as well. > > > > It's all about choice with linux, and it's all up to you to decide how > > much you want to accomplish. > > > > > > On 4/3/2023 9:51 PM, Marda wrote: > > > Well I am aware of linux's roles in those areas but was speaking as an > > > end user who is not tech savvy. I used to have a frfiend (we have > > > since lost touch) who did a lot with programming in linux environments > > > and with screen readers for it and all that but when I was referring > > > to popularity I should have made it clear that I was talking about us > > > average paeon end users who have little tech background and limited to > > > no experience or at least limited to no positive experience with linuxx. > > > > > > Marda > > > > > > On 4/3/2023 2:50 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > >> Many end users pick the wrong distribution for themselves and run into a > > >> bad learning curve then give up. > > >> Those of us who have been using Linux for a while know not to ever > > >> recommend Gentoo to new users. Other easier options exist. Linux is > > >> very > > >> popular although not necessarily with the home users. Linux runs google > > >> and runs most of the servers on the internet be they corporate or > > >> Government. So it depends on which sector of the internet is cherry > > >> picked. Without Linux, an internet to run ecommerce and windows > > >> wouldn't > > >> be around today since the hackers would have over-run it long ago. Make > > >> no mistake Linux is under attack from the hackers and so far it has > > >> managed to stay a few steps ahead of them but Windows no matter the > > >> version is a virus magnet. > > >> > > >> > > >> -- Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in > > >> defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that > > >> order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. > > >> > > >> On Mon, 3 Apr 2023, Marda wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes but then why isn't linux more popular? It's got a lot of wonderful > > >>> qualities but it's not as intuitive or easy for a new end user to > > >>> use. There > > >>> are developers for windows machines, smartphones and so on that do > > >>> have free > > >>> games, even for amazon echo devices, google devices and so on. They > > >>> may not > > >>> be always as fancy or exactly what a person wants and I know it's > > >>> frustrating > > >>> if you want a specific game and it's out of your price range but > > >>> some people > > >>> develop games as a side thing on their own time as volunteers and > > >>> some do it > > >>> for a full time living and those people expect to be paid as any > > >>> fulll time > > >>> paid worker would. > > >>> > > >>> Marda > > >>> > > >>> On 4/3/2023 3:48 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > >>>> The full-time developers need to be paid but the ones that make their > > >>>> money doing other work and do part-time development are another story. > > >>>> That's how linux got where it is today. The payment the linux > > >>>> developers > > >>>> got and get is they often learn more about programming doing their > > >>>> linux > > >>>> development than they manage to do in the careers where they make > > >>>> their > > >>>> money. A loss for employers but our gain. > > >>>> Aside from that, the linux developers get to work on the best > > >>>> supported > > >>>> operating systems on the planet. Microsoft can't match that level of > > >>>> support. > > >>>> -- Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be > > >>>> used in > > >>>> defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that > > >>>> order." Ed Howdershelt 1940. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. 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