Yes, well my fence sticks out probably over four inches so using that for a reference wouldn't be good except for sheet goods. With it folded up flat though and using the base along a flat surface would allow milling narrower stock. Because I have the tools though I think i would sooner use a slot cutting bit on the router table for say cutting a groove around a sheet of plywood then cutting a tongue on surrounding edge pieces except that it is easier and much quicker to just use biscuits as intended.
Many years ago I saw Norm Abrams use a bench biscuit joiner. I don't know just how it worked as I can't see but he seemed to have a bench arrangement with a fence and the cutter came up from the bottom when he stepped on a pedal. I am not aware that he has used that in several years but I thought it might be an interesting insert to build for my router table should I ever need to do a lot of biscuit joining. I have not seen such a device since. It is really getting on my t*its that here I have all this time on my hands and there my shop sits as it was left a month ago. I can't believe that the Hospital just called "to check on me" with a thought to modified work! Sure, the blind guy can do the photocopying and filing. The beggars wouldn't let me near their shop of course. She implied that I would have to use my vacation time for the trip we are taking next week. One more crack like that and I will be exploring the possibilities of total disability and they can start my pension early. Then we will see how much time I can put in my workshop! Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype DaleLeavens Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Yankee workshop and questions. > p.s. using a biscuit joiner to cut a running groove in a workpiece never > crossed my mind either and strikes me as both difficult and dangerous. > Keeping the workpiece tightly clamped down would seem to be a significant > problem. > > -- > Larry Martin > Woodworking for the Blind > --joining the world of blind wood workers > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Thanks Larry, >> >> I only hope I didn't leave anything significant out. >> >> I was surprised to read in one of the magazines you sent along a use of >> the >> biscuit joiner to cut grooves by sliding the unit along while running. It >> never crossed my mind to do so but it is a quick and should be accurate >> way >> of cutting for splines and probably even the grooves to receive drawer >> bottoms and other applications. >> >> Mine is a porter cable which I have had for four or five years now, it >> includes a small cutter for #0 biscuits which I have used for mitering >> frames corners. It means changing the cutter blade but pretty cool. >> >> I read another article or rather you did but the builder used it to >> assemble >> drawer boxes. quick and strong if not classic joinery. For a lot of >> applications though this is exactly the answer, strong, accurate and >> fast. >> >> Any time that list members feel I may be over stepping they should feel >> free >> to say so. I often put quite a bit of effort into writing what I think is >> a >> clear explanation or description of things I have done or have observed >> and >> I do so because I am grateful for others who have taken the trouble to >> inform me. It is difficult for most of us blind people to learn from >> observation and sometimes it is just a very simple concept or >> understanding >> which, if missed can become a block to building more learning or >> understanding. This is not unique to the blind but we have fewer >> opportunities. I just hope to speed the process for others as others have >> for me. >> >> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Skype DaleLeavens >> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Yankee workshop and questions. >> >> >> > Dale, that was a thorough and well written response on biscuit joiners. >> > >> > -- >> > Larry Martin >> > Woodworking for the Blind >> > --joining the world of blind wood workers >> > >> > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> > From: "Dale Leavens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> Max, it wasn't a router he was using although there are router bits >> >> for >> >> cutting biscuit slots, he was using a specific tool called a biscuit >> >> joiner >> >> or also called a plate joiner. >> >> >> >> You purchase the biscuits which are actually elongated ovals made of >> >> dry >> >> and >> >> compressed beach wood. They swell when glue is applied. They come in >> >> about >> >> four sizes. >> >> >> >> The biscuit does fit or should fit pretty well half way into the slot >> >> on >> >> one >> >> side how ever it might have looked to you. As for strength, dowels and >> >> biscuits are not primarily for strengthening although they do that. >> >> The >> >> primary function is to align the joint in most applications. Dowels >> >> suffer >> >> from the direction of the grain which is usually across the grain of >> >> the >> >> mating surfaces and glue more firmly attaches in the long direction of >> >> the >> >> grain. The other main disadvantage of dowels is that accuracy is >> >> absolutely >> >> critical, not only must the holes align absolutely directly but they >> >> must >> >> be >> >> absolutely in line. Biscuit joinery allows for a little error. >> >> >> >> The plate joiner has a carbide tipped blade which is on a spring >> >> loaded >> >> travel. There is a fence, these vary from machine to machine but you >> >> can >> >> set >> >> the fence a particular distance from the slot through which the blade >> >> will >> >> protrude and will be parallel to the slot. Most will allow the fence >> >> to >> >> be >> >> tilted in both directions to allow you to cut slots in mitered >> >> assemblies >> >> and other angled fixation of differing angles. You can index off the >> >> fence >> >> or index off the bottom flat surface of the joiner. >> >> >> >> You then set the fence on the face of a board and bring the face with >> >> the >> >> slot tight against the edge of the board holding it there using a >> >> handle >> >> built for that purpose then turn on the machine and using the other >> >> hand >> >> you >> >> force the cutter through the slot and into the edge against the >> >> springs >> >> which plunges the blade into the edge of the board. Release so it runs >> >> back >> >> out with the spring assist then release the trigger so it shuts off. >> >> >> >> When I built my work bench I made up a frame rather like the shape of >> >> angle >> >> iron using three quarters plywood one edge to the face of the other >> >> and >> >> joined those with biscuits. I then mitered the corners and joined them >> >> with >> >> biscuits and clamped them up square. I might have used screws but I >> >> never >> >> would have got the corners strong that way and doweling the edges of >> >> plywood >> >> isn't all that satisfactory or probably reliable. >> >> >> >> when the biscuits get wet with glue not only does the glue bond but >> >> they >> >> swell and actually if you don't work fairly quickly they can be very >> >> difficult to set. This can be a disat\dvantage, Norm has mentioned on >> >> a >> >> couple of shows that biscuits set too close to the surface can cause >> >> slight >> >> dimpling to telegraph through the surface as the glue ages and I >> >> suppose >> >> the >> >> wood responds to changes in environmental moisture. On a very smooth >> >> finish >> >> this can be visible. So far I haven't noticed this. >> >> >> >> There is a new unit out there, called a domino joiner I believe, cuts >> >> a >> >> more >> >> rectangular hole and uses rectangular biscuits and an oscilating >> >> cutting >> >> action. These work more like floating mortise & tennon joints. I am >> >> not >> >> otherwise sure of the advantages, if they index easily enough I >> >> suppose >> >> you >> >> could use them to join rails & styles without cutting proper mortise & >> >> tenon >> >> joints. The biscuit joiners are plenty expensive but these domino >> >> joiners >> >> are really a lot more costly. >> >> >> >> Generally the correct term is Jointer. The machine is also sometimes >> >> called >> >> a planer but more usually that refers to a device for thicknessing the >> >> face >> >> of wood or for the hand held planers more usually with a 3 inch wide >> >> cutter >> >> head intended primarily for removing stock like the edge of a door. >> >> Joiner >> >> is sometimes used to refer to a jointer and I hear it more commonly >> >> used >> >> these days but the manufacturers still seem to refer to them as >> >> jointers. >> >> >> >> Hope this helps clear things up for you. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Skype DaleLeavens >> >> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Max Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: "Blind Handyman" <blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 11:36 PM >> >> Subject: [BlindHandyMan] Yankee workshop and questions. >> >> >> >> >> >> >I have watched only one episode of the Yankee workshop and already I >> >> >have >> >> > questions. >> >> > >> >> > He did a bisket joint. They didn't show him making the bisket. Do >> >> > you >> >> > buy >> >> > them pre made? It was elliptical in shape which seems hard to make. >> >> > He >> >> > made the cutout with a plunge router which looked like he was making >> >> > a >> >> > basically rectangular shaped cutout. When he dropped the bisket >> >> > into >> >> > the >> >> > cutout it didn't fit at all tight. Also it went in more than half >> >> > the >> >> > width >> >> > of the bisket. There was just a little peaking out. All in all >> >> > this >> >> > doesn't seem like a very strong joint. In an infomercial I saw >> >> > someone >> >> > making a dowel joint. It seems to me to be a much stronger joint. >> >> > How >> >> > does >> >> > a bisket joint compare to a dowel joint. Also I'm not sure but I >> >> > think >> >> > he >> >> > was using some kind of guide to keep the router in the center of the >> >> > edge >> >> > of >> >> > the board. If there is such a thing, what is it called? >> >> > >> >> > Also a pronunciation question. Dale and I had a conversation the >> >> > other >> >> > night on FTP about a jointer. The yankee used one on the show but >> >> > he >> >> > pronounced it joiner. Which is correct? Does it depend on where >> >> > you >> >> > come >> >> > from? >> >> > >> >> > Regards. >> >> > >> >> > Max. K 4 O D S. >> >> > >> >> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > >> >> > Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net >> >> > Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net >> >> > Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com >> >> > >> >> > To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, >> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > To listen to the show archives go to link >> >> > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html >> >> > or >> >> > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ >> >> > >> >> > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. >> >> > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday >> >> > >> >> > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. >> >> > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml >> >> > >> >> > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From >> >> > Various >> >> > List Members At The Following address: >> >> > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ >> >> > >> >> > Visit the new archives page at the following address >> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ >> >> > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy >> >> > Man >> >> > list just send a blank message to: >> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > To listen to the show archives go to link >> > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html >> > or >> > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ >> > >> > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. >> > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday >> > >> > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. >> > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml >> > >> > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From >> > Various >> > List Members At The Following address: >> > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ >> > >> > Visit the new archives page at the following address >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ >> > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man >> > list just send a blank message to: >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Yahoo! 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