On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 8:08 AM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 3:56 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbog...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> Yes, the intent is to ship section 4 from the linked specification. >> >> Regarding Mozilla, we have no signal from them. >> > > Have you reached out to discuss? I'm concerned there might be multiple > incompatible translation apis under development. > First, let's clarify that this is a discussion about translator APIs, whereas this Intent to Ship is for a language detector API. So although multiple translator APIs might be worrying for a translator I2S, I am hopeful it doesn't need to be treated as a blocker for language detector. Anyway, we indeed have had ongoing discussions with Mozilla, both one-off and in the WebML Community Group, about this subject. The status of their translator explainer is a bit unclear. As you can see, it hasn't been presented to any community group or working group. When we'd previously asked their WebML CG representatives about it, they said they were monitoring the space and weren't yet ready to present an alternative. They haven't given any negative signals on our proposed translator API (nor official positive ones). It's also worth noting that the mozilla/explainers proposal is strictly less powerful than the WebML CG one that we're developing. That is, theirs can be polyfilled on top of ours, but not vice-versa. So if the mozilla/explainers proposal got traction in the future, we could add it as well, either natively or via a JavaScript polyfill. It's also worth noting that some of the use cases that partners have used the translator API for during the origin trial are not possible with the mozilla/explainers proposal. Some examples: - Translating audio, in conjunction with web speech APIs for speech recognition and generation; - Translating user search terms, including translating them *away* from the user's preferred language. (E.g., prompting a Spanish-speaking user on an English e-commerce site with: "You entered 'zapatos'. Did you mean to search for 'shoes'?") Hope this helps! > >> Thanks, >> Deepti >> >> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:15 AM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, I see that Mozilla has published an explainer >>> <https://github.com/mozilla/explainers/blob/main/translation.md> for an >>> (alternate?) translation API. I realize that their explainer may not cover >>> language detection, but language detection is part of a larger spec linked >>> here that includes translation. Have you talked to them about it? >>> >>> Also, is this intent just proposing to ship section 4 from the linked >>> specification? >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:34 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbog...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> Overall we have received positive feedback from the developers. A more >>>> recent snapshot of the quantitative feedback was shared at BlinkOn: >>>> bit.ly/blinkon-2025-builtin-ai (slide 34). >>>> >>>> We are working with our partners who are excited >>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/36> to >>>> use this API. I am also sharing our latest OT feedback >>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/blob/main/telcons/2025-02-26-cg-minutes.md> >>>> stats >>>> across various APIs. >>>> >>>> Finally, from the latest OT sign up numbers, we were already order of >>>> magnitude above a typical OT which suggests lots of interest in what this >>>> API enables. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps. Let me know if you have further questions. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Deepti >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 11:13 AM Alex Russell <slightly...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey Deepti, >>>>> >>>>> Are you able to summarize developer feedback from the OT? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 1:58:12 PM UTC-7 Deepti Bogadi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>> >>>>>> dome...@chromium.org, fer...@chromium.org, kenjibah...@chromium.org, >>>>>> a...@chromium.org, memm...@chromium.org, christin...@chromium.org, >>>>>> dbog...@chromium.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Explainer >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>> >>>>>> Specification >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://webmachinelearning.github.io/translation-api/#language-detector-api >>>>>> >>>>>> Note that although the translator API and language detector APIs both >>>>>> live in a single specification, they can be implemented independently, >>>>>> and >>>>>> this Intent is only for the language detector API. >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary >>>>>> >>>>>> A JavaScript API for detecting the language of text, with confidence >>>>>> levels. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink component >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink>AI>Language Detection >>>>>> <https://issues.chromium.org/issues?q=customfield1222907:%22Blink%3EAI%3ELanguage%20Detection%22> >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/948 >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review status >>>>>> >>>>>> Issues addressed >>>>>> >>>>>> The TAG had a number of questions and suggestions, particularly >>>>>> around API shape, all of which were addressed and incorporated into the >>>>>> design. >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin Trial Name >>>>>> >>>>>> Language Detector API >>>>>> >>>>>> Chromium Trial Name >>>>>> >>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin Trial documentation link >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>> >>>>>> WebFeature UseCounter name >>>>>> >>>>>> kV8LanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>> >>>>>> Risks >>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> This feature, like all built-in AI features, has inherent >>>>>> interoperability risks due to the use of AI models whose behavior is not >>>>>> fully specified. See some general discussion in >>>>>> https://www.w3.org/reports/ai-web-impact/#interop. >>>>>> >>>>>> By providing a high-level API with clear output formats, as well as a >>>>>> capabilities API for detecting what a given browser supports, we believe >>>>>> we >>>>>> can guide web developers toward using the API in an interoperable way >>>>>> that >>>>>> does not depend on the specific models that a given browser or browser >>>>>> version uses. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gecko: No signal ( >>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/1015) >>>>>> >>>>>> WebKit: No signal ( >>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/339) >>>>>> >>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/147) >>>>>> >>>>>> Other signals: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>> >>>>>> This API will likely frequently be used in concert with the >>>>>> translator API (https://chromestatus.com/feature/5172811302961152). >>>>>> >>>>>> The language detection is run on the main thread, the same as the >>>>>> browser's built-in language detection. The inference is fast enough that >>>>>> it >>>>>> is not a concern. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Activation >>>>>> >>>>>> This feature would definitely benefit from having polyfills, backed >>>>>> by any of: cloud services, lazily-loaded on-device models using WebGPU, >>>>>> or >>>>>> the web developer's own server. We anticipate seeing an ecosystem of such >>>>>> polyfills grow as more developers experiment with this API. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>>>>> >>>>>> None >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> Basic tooling suffices >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>> Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes >>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>>> The WPTs test the API surface, but since no specific language is >>>>>> guaranteed to be supported, we cannot test the actual language detection. >>>>>> Some tests will need to be marked as optional as they assume certain >>>>>> language support. They also currently do not pass on wpt.fyi since it >>>>>> runs >>>>>> without a language detection model, so creation of LanguageDetector >>>>>> fails. >>>>>> >>>>>> Flag name on about://flags >>>>>> >>>>>> language-detection-api >>>>>> >>>>>> Finch feature name >>>>>> >>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>> >>>>>> Rollout plan >>>>>> >>>>>> Will ship enabled for all users >>>>>> >>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>>>> >>>>>> False >>>>>> >>>>>> Measurement >>>>>> >>>>>> kV8AILanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>> >>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>> >>>>>> Shipping on desktop >>>>>> >>>>>> 137 >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin trial desktop first >>>>>> >>>>>> 130 >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin trial desktop last >>>>>> >>>>>> 135 >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin trial extension 1 end milestone >>>>>> >>>>>> 138 >>>>>> >>>>>> DevTrial on desktop >>>>>> >>>>>> 129 >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin trial Android first >>>>>> >>>>>> 130 >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin trial Android last >>>>>> >>>>>> 135 >>>>>> >>>>>> DevTrial on Android >>>>>> >>>>>> 129 >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin trial WebView first >>>>>> >>>>>> 130 >>>>>> >>>>>> Origin trial WebView last >>>>>> >>>>>> 135 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>> >>>>>> None but the API shape is designed with extensibility in mind >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/6494349985841152?gate=5122129510268928 >>>>>> >>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>> >>>>>> Intent to Prototype: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Ie46tc6_8so/m/eY1huFmOAAAJ >>>>>> >>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra-WvH-sxxWndwAWPLF3eEYqeLhXrz-VmZKH4Wxzbpse-Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> Intent to Extend Experiment 1: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAO4d-SsFc3ucbmasgZmWn4PE_TOMMnWZQCzrL%3DXbbo5tDxMSOg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZgG8%2BepW52jqPEbny4cCCYbSC9q6r8sw6uKmrw_gphpwA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZgG8%2BepW52jqPEbny4cCCYbSC9q6r8sw6uKmrw_gphpwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZiXE5f9ioWCBdyPKA0dLCgjAP2C%3D03oPoPibBN_xXrwUA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZiXE5f9ioWCBdyPKA0dLCgjAP2C%3D03oPoPibBN_xXrwUA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "chrome-chia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to chrome-chia+unsubscr...@google.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/a/google.com/d/msgid/chrome-chia/CAOMQ%2Bw9Aksov83aRn2UuTcFj_tJ%3D67JcTg28trmi_wtQeQ-S4g%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/google.com/d/msgid/chrome-chia/CAOMQ%2Bw9Aksov83aRn2UuTcFj_tJ%3D67JcTg28trmi_wtQeQ-S4g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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