LGTM3 On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 11:11 AM Daniel Bratell <bratel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> LGTM2 > > /Daniel > On 2025-05-02 16:49, Chris Harrelson wrote: > > Thanks for these clarifications! > > LGTM1 > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:39 PM 'Domenic Denicola' via blink-dev < > blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 8:08 AM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 3:56 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbog...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Chris, >>>> >>>> Yes, the intent is to ship section 4 from the linked specification. >>>> >>>> Regarding Mozilla, we have no signal from them. >>>> >>> >>> Have you reached out to discuss? I'm concerned there might be multiple >>> incompatible translation apis under development. >>> >> >> First, let's clarify that this is a discussion about translator APIs, >> whereas this Intent to Ship is for a language detector API. So although >> multiple translator APIs might be worrying for a translator I2S, I am >> hopeful it doesn't need to be treated as a blocker for language detector. >> >> Anyway, we indeed have had ongoing discussions with Mozilla, both one-off >> and in the WebML Community Group, about this subject. >> >> The status of their translator explainer is a bit unclear. As you can >> see, it hasn't been presented to any community group or working group. When >> we'd previously asked their WebML CG representatives about it, they said >> they were monitoring the space and weren't yet ready to present an >> alternative. They haven't given any negative signals on our proposed >> translator API (nor official positive ones). >> >> It's also worth noting that the mozilla/explainers proposal is strictly >> less powerful than the WebML CG one that we're developing. That is, theirs >> can be polyfilled on top of ours, but not vice-versa. So if the >> mozilla/explainers proposal got traction in the future, we could add it as >> well, either natively or via a JavaScript polyfill. >> >> It's also worth noting that some of the use cases that partners have used >> the translator API for during the origin trial are not possible with the >> mozilla/explainers proposal. Some examples: >> >> - Translating audio, in conjunction with web speech APIs for speech >> recognition and generation; >> - Translating user search terms, including translating them *away* from >> the user's preferred language. (E.g., prompting a Spanish-speaking user on >> an English e-commerce site with: "You entered 'zapatos'. Did you mean to >> search for 'shoes'?") >> >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Deepti >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:15 AM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, I see that Mozilla has published an explainer >>>>> <https://github.com/mozilla/explainers/blob/main/translation.md> for >>>>> an (alternate?) translation API. I realize that their explainer may not >>>>> cover language detection, but language detection is part of a larger spec >>>>> linked here that includes translation. Have you talked to them about it? >>>>> >>>>> Also, is this intent just proposing to ship section 4 from the linked >>>>> specification? >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:34 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbog...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> Overall we have received positive feedback from the developers. A >>>>>> more recent snapshot of the quantitative feedback was shared at BlinkOn: >>>>>> bit.ly/blinkon-2025-builtin-ai (slide 34). >>>>>> >>>>>> We are working with our partners who are excited >>>>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/36> to >>>>>> use this API. I am also sharing our latest OT feedback >>>>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/blob/main/telcons/2025-02-26-cg-minutes.md> >>>>>> stats >>>>>> across various APIs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, from the latest OT sign up numbers, we were already order of >>>>>> magnitude above a typical OT which suggests lots of interest in what this >>>>>> API enables. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope this helps. Let me know if you have further questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Deepti >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 11:13 AM Alex Russell < >>>>>> slightly...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey Deepti, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you able to summarize developer feedback from the OT? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 1:58:12 PM UTC-7 Deepti Bogadi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> dome...@chromium.org, fer...@chromium.org, kenjibah...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>> a...@chromium.org, memm...@chromium.org, christin...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>> dbog...@chromium.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://webmachinelearning.github.io/translation-api/#language-detector-api >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note that although the translator API and language detector APIs >>>>>>>> both live in a single specification, they can be implemented >>>>>>>> independently, >>>>>>>> and this Intent is only for the language detector API. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A JavaScript API for detecting the language of text, with >>>>>>>> confidence levels. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blink component >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blink>AI>Language Detection >>>>>>>> <https://issues.chromium.org/issues?q=customfield1222907:%22Blink%3EAI%3ELanguage%20Detection%22> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> TAG review >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/948 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> TAG review status >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Issues addressed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The TAG had a number of questions and suggestions, particularly >>>>>>>> around API shape, all of which were addressed and incorporated into the >>>>>>>> design. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin Trial Name >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Language Detector API >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chromium Trial Name >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin Trial documentation link >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WebFeature UseCounter name >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> kV8LanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This feature, like all built-in AI features, has inherent >>>>>>>> interoperability risks due to the use of AI models whose behavior is >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> fully specified. See some general discussion in >>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/reports/ai-web-impact/#interop. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> By providing a high-level API with clear output formats, as well as >>>>>>>> a capabilities API for detecting what a given browser supports, we >>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>> we can guide web developers toward using the API in an interoperable >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> that does not depend on the specific models that a given browser or >>>>>>>> browser >>>>>>>> version uses. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gecko: No signal ( >>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/1015) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WebKit: No signal ( >>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/339) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/147) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Other signals: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This API will likely frequently be used in concert with the >>>>>>>> translator API (https://chromestatus.com/feature/5172811302961152). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The language detection is run on the main thread, the same as the >>>>>>>> browser's built-in language detection. The inference is fast enough >>>>>>>> that it >>>>>>>> is not a concern. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Activation >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This feature would definitely benefit from having polyfills, backed >>>>>>>> by any of: cloud services, lazily-loaded on-device models using >>>>>>>> WebGPU, or >>>>>>>> the web developer's own server. We anticipate seeing an ecosystem of >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> polyfills grow as more developers experiment with this API. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, >>>>>>>> such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based >>>>>>>> applications? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Basic tooling suffices >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>>>> Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The WPTs test the API surface, but since no specific language is >>>>>>>> guaranteed to be supported, we cannot test the actual language >>>>>>>> detection. >>>>>>>> Some tests will need to be marked as optional as they assume certain >>>>>>>> language support. They also currently do not pass on wpt.fyi since it >>>>>>>> runs >>>>>>>> without a language detection model, so creation of LanguageDetector >>>>>>>> fails. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Flag name on about://flags >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> language-detection-api >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Finch feature name >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rollout plan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Will ship enabled for all users >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> False >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Measurement >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> kV8AILanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shipping on desktop >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 137 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop first >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop last >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin trial extension 1 end milestone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 138 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 129 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin trial Android first >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin trial Android last >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DevTrial on Android >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 129 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin trial WebView first >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Origin trial WebView last >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> None but the API shape is designed with extensibility in mind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/6494349985841152?gate=5122129510268928 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Intent to Prototype: >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Ie46tc6_8so/m/eY1huFmOAAAJ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra-WvH-sxxWndwAWPLF3eEYqeLhXrz-VmZKH4Wxzbpse-Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> Intent to Extend Experiment 1: >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAO4d-SsFc3ucbmasgZmWn4PE_TOMMnWZQCzrL%3DXbbo5tDxMSOg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZgG8%2BepW52jqPEbny4cCCYbSC9q6r8sw6uKmrw_gphpwA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZgG8%2BepW52jqPEbny4cCCYbSC9q6r8sw6uKmrw_gphpwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZiXE5f9ioWCBdyPKA0dLCgjAP2C%3D03oPoPibBN_xXrwUA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZiXE5f9ioWCBdyPKA0dLCgjAP2C%3D03oPoPibBN_xXrwUA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "chrome-chia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to chrome-chia+unsubscr...@google.com. >>> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/google.com/d/msgid/chrome-chia/CAOMQ%2Bw9Aksov83aRn2UuTcFj_tJ%3D67JcTg28trmi_wtQeQ-S4g%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/google.com/d/msgid/chrome-chia/CAOMQ%2Bw9Aksov83aRn2UuTcFj_tJ%3D67JcTg28trmi_wtQeQ-S4g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra_b-GymrYADk4MtWtjULJRYn-MXaXj%2BJr1FDNp2Mxns1Q%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra_b-GymrYADk4MtWtjULJRYn-MXaXj%2BJr1FDNp2Mxns1Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw9vnhKyZky%2BmCxNz%2BA1S-7bbSE_%3DTc3eW50mpiz8EwLwA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw9vnhKyZky%2BmCxNz%2BA1S-7bbSE_%3DTc3eW50mpiz8EwLwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/a81a7ae4-16ca-4ba7-bf43-c18d85d681d0%40gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/a81a7ae4-16ca-4ba7-bf43-c18d85d681d0%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOmohSLAyFUm%2BKZyC1FkayiBo4jLaTS1u%2BR9541mMdnPQaQqwQ%40mail.gmail.com.
