Thanks for these clarifications! LGTM1
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:39 PM 'Domenic Denicola' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 8:08 AM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 3:56 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbog...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> Yes, the intent is to ship section 4 from the linked specification. >>> >>> Regarding Mozilla, we have no signal from them. >>> >> >> Have you reached out to discuss? I'm concerned there might be multiple >> incompatible translation apis under development. >> > > First, let's clarify that this is a discussion about translator APIs, > whereas this Intent to Ship is for a language detector API. So although > multiple translator APIs might be worrying for a translator I2S, I am > hopeful it doesn't need to be treated as a blocker for language detector. > > Anyway, we indeed have had ongoing discussions with Mozilla, both one-off > and in the WebML Community Group, about this subject. > > The status of their translator explainer is a bit unclear. As you can see, > it hasn't been presented to any community group or working group. When we'd > previously asked their WebML CG representatives about it, they said they > were monitoring the space and weren't yet ready to present an alternative. > They haven't given any negative signals on our proposed translator API (nor > official positive ones). > > It's also worth noting that the mozilla/explainers proposal is strictly > less powerful than the WebML CG one that we're developing. That is, theirs > can be polyfilled on top of ours, but not vice-versa. So if the > mozilla/explainers proposal got traction in the future, we could add it as > well, either natively or via a JavaScript polyfill. > > It's also worth noting that some of the use cases that partners have used > the translator API for during the origin trial are not possible with the > mozilla/explainers proposal. Some examples: > > - Translating audio, in conjunction with web speech APIs for speech > recognition and generation; > - Translating user search terms, including translating them *away* from > the user's preferred language. (E.g., prompting a Spanish-speaking user on > an English e-commerce site with: "You entered 'zapatos'. Did you mean to > search for 'shoes'?") > > > Hope this helps! > > >> >>> Thanks, >>> Deepti >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:15 AM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, I see that Mozilla has published an explainer >>>> <https://github.com/mozilla/explainers/blob/main/translation.md> for >>>> an (alternate?) translation API. I realize that their explainer may not >>>> cover language detection, but language detection is part of a larger spec >>>> linked here that includes translation. Have you talked to them about it? >>>> >>>> Also, is this intent just proposing to ship section 4 from the linked >>>> specification? >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:34 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbog...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> Overall we have received positive feedback from the developers. A more >>>>> recent snapshot of the quantitative feedback was shared at BlinkOn: >>>>> bit.ly/blinkon-2025-builtin-ai (slide 34). >>>>> >>>>> We are working with our partners who are excited >>>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/36> to >>>>> use this API. I am also sharing our latest OT feedback >>>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/blob/main/telcons/2025-02-26-cg-minutes.md> >>>>> stats >>>>> across various APIs. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, from the latest OT sign up numbers, we were already order of >>>>> magnitude above a typical OT which suggests lots of interest in what this >>>>> API enables. >>>>> >>>>> Hope this helps. Let me know if you have further questions. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Deepti >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 11:13 AM Alex Russell < >>>>> slightly...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey Deepti, >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you able to summarize developer feedback from the OT? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 1:58:12 PM UTC-7 Deepti Bogadi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>>> >>>>>>> dome...@chromium.org, fer...@chromium.org, kenjibah...@chromium.org, >>>>>>> a...@chromium.org, memm...@chromium.org, christin...@chromium.org, >>>>>>> dbog...@chromium.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://webmachinelearning.github.io/translation-api/#language-detector-api >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Note that although the translator API and language detector APIs >>>>>>> both live in a single specification, they can be implemented >>>>>>> independently, >>>>>>> and this Intent is only for the language detector API. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A JavaScript API for detecting the language of text, with confidence >>>>>>> levels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blink component >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blink>AI>Language Detection >>>>>>> <https://issues.chromium.org/issues?q=customfield1222907:%22Blink%3EAI%3ELanguage%20Detection%22> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TAG review >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/948 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TAG review status >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Issues addressed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The TAG had a number of questions and suggestions, particularly >>>>>>> around API shape, all of which were addressed and incorporated into the >>>>>>> design. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin Trial Name >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Language Detector API >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chromium Trial Name >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin Trial documentation link >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WebFeature UseCounter name >>>>>>> >>>>>>> kV8LanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This feature, like all built-in AI features, has inherent >>>>>>> interoperability risks due to the use of AI models whose behavior is not >>>>>>> fully specified. See some general discussion in >>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/reports/ai-web-impact/#interop. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By providing a high-level API with clear output formats, as well as >>>>>>> a capabilities API for detecting what a given browser supports, we >>>>>>> believe >>>>>>> we can guide web developers toward using the API in an interoperable way >>>>>>> that does not depend on the specific models that a given browser or >>>>>>> browser >>>>>>> version uses. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gecko: No signal ( >>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/1015) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WebKit: No signal ( >>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/339) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/147) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Other signals: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This API will likely frequently be used in concert with the >>>>>>> translator API (https://chromestatus.com/feature/5172811302961152). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The language detection is run on the main thread, the same as the >>>>>>> browser's built-in language detection. The inference is fast enough >>>>>>> that it >>>>>>> is not a concern. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Activation >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This feature would definitely benefit from having polyfills, backed >>>>>>> by any of: cloud services, lazily-loaded on-device models using WebGPU, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> the web developer's own server. We anticipate seeing an ecosystem of >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> polyfills grow as more developers experiment with this API. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based >>>>>>> applications? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> None >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Basic tooling suffices >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>>> Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The WPTs test the API surface, but since no specific language is >>>>>>> guaranteed to be supported, we cannot test the actual language >>>>>>> detection. >>>>>>> Some tests will need to be marked as optional as they assume certain >>>>>>> language support. They also currently do not pass on wpt.fyi since it >>>>>>> runs >>>>>>> without a language detection model, so creation of LanguageDetector >>>>>>> fails. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Flag name on about://flags >>>>>>> >>>>>>> language-detection-api >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finch feature name >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rollout plan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Will ship enabled for all users >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> False >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Measurement >>>>>>> >>>>>>> kV8AILanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shipping on desktop >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 137 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin trial desktop first >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin trial desktop last >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin trial extension 1 end milestone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 138 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 129 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin trial Android first >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin trial Android last >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DevTrial on Android >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 129 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin trial WebView first >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Origin trial WebView last >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> None but the API shape is designed with extensibility in mind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/6494349985841152?gate=5122129510268928 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Intent to Prototype: >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Ie46tc6_8so/m/eY1huFmOAAAJ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra-WvH-sxxWndwAWPLF3eEYqeLhXrz-VmZKH4Wxzbpse-Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> Intent to Extend Experiment 1: >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAO4d-SsFc3ucbmasgZmWn4PE_TOMMnWZQCzrL%3DXbbo5tDxMSOg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZgG8%2BepW52jqPEbny4cCCYbSC9q6r8sw6uKmrw_gphpwA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZgG8%2BepW52jqPEbny4cCCYbSC9q6r8sw6uKmrw_gphpwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZiXE5f9ioWCBdyPKA0dLCgjAP2C%3D03oPoPibBN_xXrwUA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZiXE5f9ioWCBdyPKA0dLCgjAP2C%3D03oPoPibBN_xXrwUA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "chrome-chia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to chrome-chia+unsubscr...@google.com. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/google.com/d/msgid/chrome-chia/CAOMQ%2Bw9Aksov83aRn2UuTcFj_tJ%3D67JcTg28trmi_wtQeQ-S4g%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/a/google.com/d/msgid/chrome-chia/CAOMQ%2Bw9Aksov83aRn2UuTcFj_tJ%3D67JcTg28trmi_wtQeQ-S4g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra_b-GymrYADk4MtWtjULJRYn-MXaXj%2BJr1FDNp2Mxns1Q%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra_b-GymrYADk4MtWtjULJRYn-MXaXj%2BJr1FDNp2Mxns1Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw9vnhKyZky%2BmCxNz%2BA1S-7bbSE_%3DTc3eW50mpiz8EwLwA%40mail.gmail.com.
