Ben Tilly said: > I think responses are more along the lines of, "certification > introduces a lot of problems, and we don't see how you'll > make a certification become accepted."
I don't know how it can be done, so it must not be possible. > I think responses are more along the lines of, "we don't think > that the business world pays as much attention as you think. > If you think that it does, then please explain the success, > past and present, of C, C++, PHP and Perl." I don't know how it can be done, so it must not be possible. > I think that several have mentioned the cheap (used to be free) > web-based certification at http://www.brainbench.com/. You > have not explained why we should expect another one to > have significantly better uptake than that one. I don't know how it can be done, so it must not be possible. >> I can't do it myself, that's why I'm bringing it to the Perl Monger list. >> Shut up and advocate then, and stop arguing on the mailing list. > > Strange how that works. You don't feel that you can tackle the > task and so argue on a mailing list, I brought it up on the list. I didn't argue until I started getting socialist lessons, fears of perl splitting in half, FUD up the wazoo, and about twenty different variations of I don't know how it can be done, so it must not be possible. > What do you expect to happen? I expected to be able to discuss it with some of the people on the list who favored the ideas without "it kenna be done!" being shouted from teh engine room. > You then find out that this is a common > source of discussion, and a lot of people who are in better > positions to do something about it than you are also dubious > about it. Wow, you grossly understate the reality with "dubious". > But you don't seem to be trying to understand why, > you're just frustrated that we are not acting on it. No, see, that exactly is were you are wrong. I'm not frustrated that you aren't acting on it. It's like a walkie talkie with a bunch of people on the same frequency. Every time I say "Anyone out there want to talk about certification/advocacy/insert idea here?" a bunch of people hit the push-to-talk button with an air-horn by their microphone. See, a couple people want to talk about it, but a lot of poeple insists on squelching the discussion with "it kenne be done!" Exactly at what point does "It kenna be done" cease to help the conversation and simply bog it down? Yeah, I got you don't have an answer. I got that you've seen it fail before. I got you dont think its possible. Thank you for sharing that. I'm not frustrated that no one's doing anything about, I'm fed up with all the jerks with the airhorns going "HOOONNKKK!" every time I try to say something. > Again, would you predict this to be useful? How useful is HOOONNNKKK! > If you really wanted you could say, "I'm going to tackle this, I > need help, anyone who wants to help me please sign up here." > That would be more likely to go somewhere. You grossly misrepresent the sheer volume of posts that went: "I don't know how it can be done, so it must not be possible." It never had a chance to go anywhere. ever. > But no. Instead you're spending time talking about how > important this is without actually doing anything about it. And > then you're wondering why it is going nowhere. For an > excellent overview of why this usually won't work I highly > recommend reading _The Logic of Collective Action_. Does it talk about people blowing airhorns over walkie-talkies? That pretty much sums it up for me. >> The only "shouting down" I've done is to demand use of the >> channel for a legitimate conversation: perl advocacy. > > Some of the ranting that I saw from you didn't exactly look that > way to me... Yeah, when it became clear that this list boiled down to the lowest common denominator, I started to get pissed off. When it was clear that a conversation would not be allowed between the willing participants because some members of the audience were unwilling to allow it, I got steamed. When I realized that it wasn't that some poeple not only did not want to contribute to the idea of advocacy, but that they actually wanted to actively torpedo any attempts at it, I ranted. And of course, everyone who was anti-advocacy were only making positive contributions to the conversation. No shouting down goign on there. Hey, were just playing with our airhorns. HOONNNNKKK!!! _______________________________________________ Boston-pm mailing list [email protected] http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/boston-pm
