Ok, no need to apologize. It's a discussion group and it's always hard to explain these things e-mail. But, this asks for even more clearance now that you've started comparing the wrong things.
Over here everybody strongly dislikes americano's. The regulated alternative is a double basket with (say) 20 grams coarsely grind coffee meaning to yield 5 oz. Now, if you wanna switch between an espresso and this one you'd definitely have to change your grinder settings back and forth, right? To prevent that we came up with the single (fine grind) dosage in a double basket theory to find a better alternative for the Americano 'taste'. An Americano takes appr. 10 grams fine espresso grind yielding 1oz espresso, combined with 4oz of hot water, totals 5oz. of americano, right? Our 'new' alternative takes exactly the same amount of grams as this americano, therefore not cheaper. But the taste... is actually MUCH richer if you compare these two. Don't compare it to an espresso... Of course your lip will curl. You really need to compare this to an Americano or 5oz of drip coffee, if you like. We don't do this to save money, but to get the best taste out of the same amount of coffee we'd otherwise 'abuse' (in our opinion) for an americano. Now, to make my point once again... I've included some pix. Even from the photo's I can tell which one tastes better... and yes... there's a slight trail of 'blonding' in the crema, but nothing tastes burned whatsoever. Actually the Americano tasted burned, while the water I added was only 203 degrees fahrenheit. Left is the Americano and right is the alternative: http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk56/HCHybrid/Brewtus%20III-V/IMG_1863..jp g http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk56/HCHybrid/Brewtus%20III-V/IMG_1864..jp g FYI, I used Cafè Martella Maximum Class beans for this experiment. I hope this helped in explaining my point of view... It's up to everybody's free will what to do with this information... And please don't be offended by our opinion of an Americano ;-) Regards, Hybrid -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: onemoreshot [mailto:[email protected]] Verzonden: maandag 26 januari 2009 18:59 Aan: E. Masseurs Onderwerp: Re: Quick regular without changing the grind I apologize, I misunderstood your concept and thought you were suggesting to use coarsely ground beans, which of course would have lead to over-extraction with a capital O. In this case your suggestion is just overextraction without a capital O. Rather than you closing the thread I want to clear up a couple of things, because I like clarity. The statement you made which begins with "Clearly you haven't tasted what I suggested..." is incorrect and so I will be very clear, I have tasted your suggestion over the years and also recently and it still makes my lips curl up due to the over- extraction. If you are pulling a double using approx 17gms of coffee, the setting on the grinder is THE setting required for that particular S.O or blend in order to pull a shot that meets recognized standards. I'm not too concerned whether that grind setting is named Coarse or Fine - it simply is what it needs to be for that espresso shot. Now, if that grind setting pulls a perfect shot then that grind setting and dose and temp and puck surface to screen headspace were all in sync (amongst other things). You are suggesting removing approx 50% of a perfect ratio solution (headspace and dose). Doing that has consequences, it's called over-extraction. Now, if you are serving that to visitors and they prefer things that way it simply means that their palate's have been educated to appreciate over-extraction. Ultimately if you and they are happy then that's all that matters but let's be very clear and call it what it is... over-extraction. I will be clear on the points you positioned: "So, if someone happens to like this alternative too (which happen to be a lot of visitors I get), you can: a. serve a better tasting 5oz. cup compared to the 5oz. 'americano' b. quickly change back and forth between an espresso and a 5oz. cup without the need of changing your grinder settings c. save yourself the costs of buying an extra grinder in order to be quickly able to switch between fine and coarsely grind. Especially if you're used to serve a 5oz. cup with 20grams of coarsely grind coffee." a.) Better is your opinion and I guess that's all that matters in this case, however you are basing it on over-extracted product. b.) If you are pulling an espresso shot for a latte or for an Americano the grind never changes, a good shot goes into both. c.) Since you never change grinder settings you don't need another grinder. The only advantage I see to your suggestions is you are using 50% less product than required which presents a small cost of goods savings behind the bar but certainly not worth the saved pennies in my opinion. I included the pics because they are relevant to the discussion, not there to be boastful. Using your suggested method you simply can't extract like the first image and you won't end up with a finished product like the second image. Regarding the links, you are correct they are basic, I thought it was a good starting point. Regarding your link, the author certainly is a recognized industry figure, I have met him in person though I suspect he wouldn't remember it now. On Jan 26, 8:13 am, "E. Masseurs" <[email protected]> wrote: > Shaun, > > No need to question my experience or SCAA standards here... > know all about them 'golden rules'. > > Clearly you haven't tasted what I suggested because your > first fact (below) states coarsely ground... and that's exactly > the reason why I'm suggestion this alternative... to use fine ground. > The same grind setting as your espresso. > > Let me try to explain again what I mean; > Over here, it's fairly common to yield 5oz with either an espresso + hot > water > or a double basket filled with appr. 18-20grams coarsely grind coffee, > right? > Still with me? > > The alternative I was suggesting to try is to use a double basket > filled with 8-10 or 11 grams of FINELY grind coffee. > Why? Because you won't have to change your grinder setup going back > and forth between an espresso and a 5oz cup of regular/lungo/crema... > (whatever you like to call it on your side of the ocean). > > Now, the point I was trying to make... is to compare this alternative > against the espresso topped off with hot water. > > Despite the slight over extraction I (and many others) experience a better > tasting cup compared to an espresso topped off with hot water. > Why? Probably because the entire amount of water has been in touch with the > finely grind coffee. > > So, if someone happens to like this alternative too (which happen to be a > lot > of visitors I get), you can: > a. serve a better tasting 5oz. cup compared to the 5oz. 'americano' > b. quickly change back and forth between an espresso and a 5oz. cup without > the need of changing your grinder settings > c. save yourself the costs of buying an extra grinder in order to > be quickly able to switch between fine and coarsely grind. Especially > if you're used to serve a 5oz. cup with 20grams of coarsely grind coffee. > > The pix below look very nice, yet very common to me too. > I don't see the point of them at all, because I see them every day > and they don't make any sense to the experiment I was talking about. > Of course they taste better than any 5oz 'compromise'. Point is that > not everyone drinks an espresso, cappuccino, macchiatto, latte or > latte-macchiatto. > > The links and information you mentioned are pretty basic. > Here's something else I'd like to suggest... an inspiration for > all experienced barista, willing to expand their search, beyond > the so called 'golden or SCAA rules'. And lots of incredible pix too:https://www.espressoquest.com/book.html > > Good luck and kind regards, > Hybrid > > Ps. I hope you weren't planning on topping your wife's bevie with > boiling water (212 degrees). That would have burned some flavours, > don't you think? Considering your experience I presume you meant hot water. > > Pps. I consider this threat closed. I think it's getting too much > off topic (not brewtus related) if we take it any further. > One thing is for sure though... the Brewtus allows us to take the > everlasting coffee quest further and beyond. > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
