Very interesting... so indeed for clarity's sake it's common in the USA not to use single baskets anymore. Always good to learn about these things. We use double baskets a lot too but then to fill 2 separate glasses (actually small coffee cups) with espresso, not one. Doesn't surprise me though, because almost everything is used bigger in the states ;-) (j/k!)
Anyway, now I finally understand your point of view and this definitely proves we were both comparing different things here. Glad we got that out of the way. So, I've made a new Americano with double basket, 18grams, yielding 1.5oz espresso in 30 seconds and topped it off till 5oz with hot water... For the alternative I've also used a double basket, 10grams, yielding 5oz espresso in 30 seconds (obviously due to the lack of back-pressure or extra head space, if you like). I'm honest enough to admit the Americano based on 18 grams tasted better, but then the funny thing happened... I tasted the 10 grams alternative and it still had more flavor pallets compared to the Americano. Isn't that amazing! For me it's got nothing to do with saving on coffee... I don't care about that. But it's just amazing that using this 'wrong' method actually yielded more taste pallets. Of course I'll never do this with a naked portafilter, it goes without saying that I'll turn black instantly :-) That's pretty obvious. The extra (large) headspace is necessary to yield that 5oz in 30 seconds, due to a lack of resistance. Yet again my theory proved correctly; despite the over extraction, having the water go 'past' the grind results in more taste with less amount of coffee. Isn't that interesting? The other thing you might have noticed too, the Americano crema is severely damaged by pouring water over it, while the alternative still looks 'acceptable' for the receiver. Not trying to prove anybody wrong at all... these are just my findings and I invite anybody who's interested to give this a try. Actually I'm very grateful we've had this discussion, cause it always brings 'new' data abroad to think about... The result spoke for itself (to me) and if the financial crisis keeps hitting 'the fan', it might be considered a (nice to have) money saver too. ....at least 7 grams vs. the americano recipe, yet still maintains a satisfied client. But that's more commercially thinking, which wasn't my point at all. So, again, my sincere gratitude for this respectful discussion. It's been a pleasure 'thinking out loud' with you. Peace, Hybrid -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Namens onemoreshot Verzonden: dinsdag 27 januari 2009 7:05 Aan: Brewtus Onderwerp: Re: Quick regular without changing the grind I was comparing 18gms to 9gms because we are both talking about using a double basket. Here in N. America you will rarely (if ever) see anyone pulling a "single" (7-9gms in a single basket). Nearly every shot I have ever encountered in a retail environment (whether it goes into an espresso for sipping, an Americano, or a milk drink) is a "double" (anywhere from 14-21gms in a double basket). In my kitchen I have a single basket for the BII and a double basket and also a triple basket, my workhorse is the double basket. A double basket is the case for most cafés. So for clarity's sake a double shot in a double basket is the common approach to drinks. The determining factor on whether it is 14gms 18gms or 21gms in a double basket is really based on the coffee and what the person is trying to show in the shot. Given that you can pull the same coffee with 14gms or 21gms or anything in-between you now have exploration zones. Throw grinder settings against that zone and you have a very large window of opportunity in which to play with. The resulting pour volume might end up being 1.25oz or 2oz, the shot will tell you when to stop it, not so much based on time or volume but rather based on the amount of blonding during the pour. If you go with 18gms and a tighter grind you might end up with a gloppy pour that just plops down like really thick honey and though the shot never gets overly blonde- ish the pour starts wandering too far out of the time constraint that you want to keep it in, say maybe 40secs and so you stop the shot. Or maybe you go with 14gms, adjust the grind a bit more coarse and let the espresso flow much easier ending up with a 26sec shot and 1.75oz of volume. My point being, the "golden rules" are guidelines but not absolute, there are generally accepted practices that allow for a variety of liquid volume results and thus exploration of what the coffee has to offer - without the need to over-extract or under- extract. In your case of 9gms of finely ground coffee in a double basket the problem still exists of a very large headspace area between the top of the puck surface and the grouphead screen and the integrity of the very small puck would show greater disturbance creating more opportunity for a wide variance in over-extraction and under- extraction spots. You should put up a video of your espresso stream coming through a bottomless portafilter, I would be very surprised if it didn't show wild spraying jets of coffee shooting out as it tore that puck apart. And so for clarity's sake and to do a fair comparison, have you pulled a shot in a double basket using approx 18gms producing approx 1.5-1.75oz volume in approx 28secs and then topped it off to 5oz... then compared it to your 9gm in a double basket producing 5oz of flow- through? On Jan 26, 2:26 pm, "E. Masseurs" <[email protected]> wrote: > Not taking it personal at all, I like these discussions too ;-) > > Too bad the links didn't work, because they tell the whole story > in 2 pix. Here's another attempt:http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk56/HCHybrid/BrewtusIII-V/IMG_18 63.jpghttp://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk56/HCHybrid/BrewtusIII-V/IMG_1864 ..jpg > > I know all about the math and golden rules and what's supposed to be > considered > "wrong"...but I also learned to rely on my taste buttons and sometimes say > 'the heck' with the 'rules'. And that's how we came up with this new > version. > No matter which bean I take... the new version always comes out better than > the Americano and that's enough evidence based for me to forget about the > rules. > So, ok, the coffee 'world' may call this wrong or even over extracted with a > triple O > Frankly, I couldn't care less... it tastes better to me and our visitors and > believe > me, I've had enough people taste the difference between this new version and > an americano > (which was served according to the 'correct rules and standards'). > > Again, of course it's considered an 'imperfect' cup, but not so 'imperfect' > if > you compare it to the 'americano' way when it comes to taste. > > Also, in your story below you're comparing 18gms to 9gms, while I'm > comparing > 9gms to 9gms. A single espresso is shot from a 9gms dose in a single basket, > yielding 1oz within 25-30 seconds according to the rules, right? If you're > using 18gms > to yield 1.5oz, that's not exactly a single espresso according to 'the > rules' either. > 1.5oz with 18gms is right in between a single and a double espresso if you > ask me. > But maybe I misunderstood... > > So, how I think of now? Yes, you're right when it comes to the theoretical > survey of > this experiment. Yet, I'll always stick to my alternative, despite the > rules. > The results simply speak for themselves and that's also the point your > friend > Instaurator is making in his book I mentioned before. > > Peace, > Hybrid > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
