Bill, sorry I haven't replied before. I have had a near miss in this exact same spot. My fill solenoid was getting stuck, but eventually worked loose (or pieces moved into a better position) and daily I pull water from the hot water wand to activate the solenoid. So far, things are staying unstuck and working OK.
I do know that when I was fearing I'd have to replace it I did do a search in this group, and there is at least one extensive post (including pictures if I remember correctly) on replacing that part. I believe I found the part at WLL in stock as well. I do remember from the post that it is very difficult to get to, and I remember thinking that if I ever attempted it, it was an ideal time to clean everything out and rebuild because basically all of it had to come out. I also remember that alignment was a big deal, and you couldn't necessarily tighten down all the connections as a result, so high temp teflon tape was important. A lot of playing around to avoid leaks. I believe you've found the issue, and now it's probably a matter of finding that post and digging deep if you are going to do a major repair like this. As you said, this is not in an easy spot, and it looked to me like one of the worst repairs you could take on. Best of luck. On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 12:55:24 AM UTC-4 billherbst wrote: > > Never mind. As I feared, I posted too soon about a miraculous recovery. > After one shot, the pump kicked in to refill the steam boiler, but no water > flowed. So, either the solenoid relay is operating intermittently (since it > clicked when I tested it two days ago), or the valve was stuck, came > unstuck once, and is now stuck again. I'd wager that the valve is dirty > rather than broken. Now the question is, how to get the valve out to > dismantle and clean? There's no room in there for hands, fingers, or tools. > It's silly to say, but I wish Expobar had made the IV-R a little more > user-repair friendly. But the machine was designed around a vibe pump, not > that humongous rotary pump assembly, so the innards are crammed full. > On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:24:21 PM UTC-5 billherbst wrote: > >> Something weird happened this afternoon. Weird good, maybe. I’ve gotten >> pretty skilled at filling the steam boiler by hand (by pulling the wire >> from the level sensor, removing it with a 19mm deep socket wrench, then >> using a gooseneck kettle to refill the steam boiler). After reinstalling >> and reconnecting the level sensor, the IV-R then heats up both boilers >> normally and is good to pull shots and steam/froth milk for 4 or 5 >> cappuccinos/lattes before the level in the steam boiler drops below the >> level sensor probe, which activates the pump again, after which it runs for >> two minutes (trying unsuccessfully to refill the steam boiler). Then the >> pump is shut down by the controller, and the Brewtus is dead. At that >> point, I refill the boiler by hand and the Brewtus springs back to life for >> another day or two. >> >> After pulling a shot today (my fifth in three days) is that the pump >> turned on to refill the steam boiler, and apparently it succeeded. Rather >> than running for two minutes, the pump ran for 5 seconds, then stopped. 10 >> seconds later, it ran for another 2 seconds, then stopped again. Another 5 >> seconds later, the pump ran for an additional 3 seconds, then stopped, this >> time permanently. And, wonder of wonders, the machine continued to operate, >> heating up the steam boiler and then the brew boiler, exactly as it should. >> >> That tells me that this time the steam boiler was indeed being refilled, >> at least enough to get the water level above the sensor probe and keep the >> machine functional. I surmise that whatever was preventing the relay valve >> from opening — a funky spring or maybe some scale causing the piston not to >> move — gave way, perhaps from all the jostling and banging I’ve been doing. >> I don’t know. >> >> What I do know is that the IV-R started to operate as it should — as if >> by magic. I don’t know that this will continue (I’m doubtful about >> permanent recovery, since whatever caused the valve problem seems likely to >> return). I may have to post tomorrow that the Brewtus died again. For the >> moment, however, it’s good news, and a pleasant surprise. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 7:50:11 AM UTC-5 billherbst wrote: >> >>> Man oh man. This is turning into an odyssey. Having now watched Todd’s >>> old WLL video on checking the electrical systems of the Brewtus, I ran the >>> check on the steam boiler refill solenoid relay (Parker KT09). I pulled off >>> the connector that powers the pump from the controller and also pulled the >>> connector from the level sensor. Turned on the machine, and the solenoid >>> audibly clicked. Turned the machine off and on, and the relay clicked >>> again. Did it a couple more times just to be sure, and the solenoid always >>> clicked. I take it that means that the coil in the solenoid isn’t burned >>> out, and that the relay works as it should. >>> >>> According to the video, this means that the valve that opens the water >>> channel to the steam boiler is broken, blocked, or stuck. There are two >>> problems with that. First, the valve assembly appears to be attached with >>> two phillips screws, but it must also be removed from the connecting >>> plumbing lines. In the Brewtus IV-R with its huge rotary pump, however, >>> there’s no room to get in there. Am I correct in assuming that considerable >>> disassembly of the machine is necessary to remove the valve assembly? >>> Second, though I’m making progress at figuring out how to address this >>> problem, we’re now well into territory above my skill levels. I’ve attached >>> a jpg of the valve. If I could get it out, perhaps even I could repair it. >>> >>> [image: Solenoid Valve (fill steam boiler.jpg]I’m also curious about >>> what the other solenoid relay does. It’s the same Parker KT09 solenoid, >>> with what appears to be an identical valve assembly, but it’ mounted on the >>> other other side of the machine between the controller and the pump. What >>> does that do, and could it be involved in the steam boiler not refilling? >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 8:44:19 PM UTC-5 Brian wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Ah hah! This is the key piece of the puzzle! So far I had been going on >>>> the assumption that your level controller was misreading a low water >>>> level. >>>> But, if it is trying to fill because the water level is low, and the level >>>> is not rising there is one last piece of hardware that is the culprit. >>>> There is a solenoid that the level controller opens to allow the water >>>> from >>>> the pump to divert to the steam boiler. It is located towards the bottom >>>> of >>>> the machine, and is likely from Parker. >>>> >>>> What your describing is exactly what would happen if that solenoid >>>> fails to open. Most likely cause of a solenoid not opening is a failed >>>> coil. This happens with time, if you check continuity across the coil it >>>> will likely read open, or very high resistance. This would indicate that >>>> you are in need of a new coil. If you reply back with the VA or watts >>>> rating of the coil And your local voltage (don’t want to assume you’re in >>>> the US) I can tell you expected ohms of the coil. >>>> >>>> Second most likely is bad wiring, could be a loose or bad connection >>>> between the level controller and the coil. Check for corrosion or loose >>>> connectors. >>>> >>>> Final possibility is the relays inside the level controller have >>>> failed. This feels the least likely to me, i’d hazard a bet that it’s the >>>> solenoid coil, but I have limited experience with these gicar controllers. >>>> >>>> If I had to put money on it I’d bet on the solenoid coil, the good news >>>> is this is a very easy to replace part. >>>> >>>> Best of luck bill! >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-4 billherbst wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brian, thanks so much for your willingness to help, and your patience >>>>> as well. >>>>> >>>>> Here’s some more info that may affect the troubleshooting diagnosis. >>>>> When I remove the level sensor and fill the steam boiler by hand with a >>>>> gooseneck kettle and then replace and reconnect the sensor, the machine >>>>> springs back to life instantly and works as it should. The steam boiler >>>>> heats up to full pressure (1.3 bars), and then the brew boiler heats up >>>>> to >>>>> PID-set temp (200° F). The Brewtus will operate correctly for a number of >>>>> shots and milk steamings, until the water level in the steam boiler falls >>>>> below the sensor. Then the sensor signals low stam water and the pump >>>>> kicks >>>>> in to refill. >>>>> >>>>> Here’s the thing, though: the pump is NOT refilling the steam boiler! >>>>> That’s why the pump runs for two minutes, then is shut down by the >>>>> controller (presumably to prevent the pump from burning out), which >>>>> disables the Brewtus, since neither boiler will heat. In other words, the >>>>> level sensor is not merely "detecting" low water. It's reporting low >>>>> water >>>>> accurately, because the water level is in fact low. >>>>> >>>>> So, the level sensor seems to be working correctly — when the water >>>>> level in the steam boiler is high enough to cover some of the sensor >>>>> probe, >>>>> the machine works fine. When the water level dips below the sensor probe, >>>>> the pump starts up automatically (as it should). But no water enters the >>>>> boiler. >>>>> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 7:24:02 AM UTC-5 Brian wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey Bill, >>>>>> >>>>>> That’s great news about the level sensor. From more of your >>>>>> description I am positive that your issue is the level sensor, or the >>>>>> wiring going to the sensor or the boiler ground. The reason I am so sure >>>>>> of >>>>>> this is based on your follow up description. The level controller inside >>>>>> the brewtus has two separate relays, on that runs the pump, the other >>>>>> that >>>>>> allows the boilers to heat or not. Because of the way the brewtus is >>>>>> wired, >>>>>> neither boiler can heat when the level controller detects low water in >>>>>> the >>>>>> steam boiler. Since that relay is Seperator from the pump relay, if it >>>>>> was >>>>>> a failing relay it would almost certainly only effect the pump, or the >>>>>> heaters. This sounds like the level controller is operating correctly, >>>>>> it >>>>>> is just detecting a false low water signal. >>>>>> >>>>>> If cleaning the sensor helped temporarily, it may just be time to >>>>>> replace the sensor. That said this does kind of sound like a bad wire >>>>>> issue. It’s possible when you cleaned the sensor you also jostled the >>>>>> wire >>>>>> into the right position. I would recommend checking resistance between >>>>>> the >>>>>> level controller side and the boiler side of both wires. Should be zero >>>>>> or >>>>>> very close to it. If not then just make up a new wire. There’s a >>>>>> chance this could also be bad scale buildup inside the steam boiler. >>>>>> Scale >>>>>> is not electrically conductive, so with enough of it if could be >>>>>> preventing >>>>>> a good connection between the boiler ground and the level sensor. I >>>>>> suppose it’s still possible the level controller is bad, but this feels >>>>>> very unlikely to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for the “static relay” they are referring to the solid state relay >>>>>> for the brew boiler. Unless you are having more problems than you’ve >>>>>> described so far, this part will do absolutely nothing for you. The only >>>>>> reason I could guess that they would have recommended that part, is that >>>>>> whoever you spoke with latched onto your comment about the brew boiler >>>>>> temp >>>>>> dropping, but doesn’t understand the brewtus’ wiring diagram well enough >>>>>> to >>>>>> notice that the power source for both boilers is routed through the >>>>>> level >>>>>> controller. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 1:15:36 AM UTC-4 billherbst wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Update: We're making progress, but no cigar yet. I removed the level >>>>>>> sensor from the steam boiler and checked it for continuity. It wasn't >>>>>>> consistent across the length of the probe, so I cleaned the probe with >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> wire brush, which restored consistent continuity. Put the sensor back >>>>>>> in, >>>>>>> and the Brewtus began working as it should, which continued for two >>>>>>> days >>>>>>> (five shots). After steaming/frothing some milk today to top up a >>>>>>> latte, >>>>>>> the IV-R failed again. The pump started to refill the steam boiler, >>>>>>> stopped >>>>>>> after five seconds (good sign), but then started up again and didn't >>>>>>> stop. >>>>>>> So, something has failed in the circuitry between the level sensor, the >>>>>>> controller, and the pump. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A replacement static relay should arrive soon from WLL, along with a >>>>>>> small tub of thermal paste from Amazon. Of course, I don't have a clue >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> that's where the problem is, but we'll see... >>>>>>> On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 9:37:18 AM UTC-5 billherbst wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brian and Ira, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had a long response composed, but let me cut to the chase. I >>>>>>>> think the problem is your #2 suggestion — a funky level sensor or >>>>>>>> controller relay. I went into the kitchen five minutes ago and found >>>>>>>> what I >>>>>>>> assume to be the steam boiler level sensor (the plastic cover on the >>>>>>>> connecter is yellow, and it's the only single wire connection on top >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> steam boiler). I traced the wire back to bottom of the main controller >>>>>>>> mounted to the front of the inner case, then pulled the connector off >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> sensor at the boiler and re-connected it. Turned on the main power and >>>>>>>> steam switches and the IV-R came back to life. Worked normally for >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> four minutes. The brew boiler began to heat, got to 198° F, and then >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> machine conked out again (meaning the same symptoms as before — the >>>>>>>> pump >>>>>>>> came on and didn't stop, and the brew boiler temp reading on the PID >>>>>>>> immediately began to decline). So, the sensor is bad or there's a >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> with the controller. Either way, the reprieve was short-lived. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WLL advised me to replace the static relay, so yesterday I ordered >>>>>>>> a new one from them — 60 bucks for the part and some thermal paste >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> Amazon. I'm not savvy enough to know if that's related to what you've >>>>>>>> advised and I'm experiencing, so I'll wait to hear what you or Ira (or >>>>>>>> other savvy aficionados here) thinks about it. If the static relay >>>>>>>> isn't >>>>>>>> the solution, I’m pretty sure I can send it back for a refund or just >>>>>>>> keep >>>>>>>> it for a rainy day. I'm beginning to consider that my days as a >>>>>>>> longtime >>>>>>>> Brewtus user might be numbered. A Profitec P300 is starting to look >>>>>>>> attractive. I know that the fantasy of an prosumer espresso machine >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> doesn't break is just that — a fantasy — but I am getting tired of >>>>>>>> repairs >>>>>>>> for which I'm minimally qualified. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have no doubt that you guys could fix this in a jiffy. I’m less >>>>>>>> confident about myself… >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> —Bill >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, April 23, 2021 at 9:28:50 PM UTC-5 Ira wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Brian, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Friday, April 23, 2021, 6:04:49 PM, you wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alternatively these relays can be repaired. It’s a bit of a >>>>>>>>> specialty thing, and requires practice soldering. I know there’s a >>>>>>>>> few guys >>>>>>>>> on here who mentioned doing it and they may be able to help with >>>>>>>>> that/more >>>>>>>>> info on how to do it. >>>>>>>>> Soldering the relay is easy, without the proper tools, getting the >>>>>>>>> old one out without damaging the board is hard. Now that I have the >>>>>>>>> proper >>>>>>>>> tool, it's not hard at all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Ira >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/48e7646d-8dbe-4557-82a4-cab23c445d65n%40googlegroups.com.
