> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gord Sellar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 6:23 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: The Space Station
>
>
> At 3:24 AM -0400 03/11/2000, Peter Horton wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> I don't think either point you raise about Mars helps your
> argument. We can
> learn about the development of the solar system through
> robotic proxies,
> and we can discover fossil life, or even live life (which I suspect is
> unlikely), through robotic proxies. *shrug*
>
> As for the notion that we've been there before, I think it's
> unlikelu, but
> more importantly that it's extremely unlikely that suggesting
> this will
> help further an argument about why we should go to Mars. I
> won't call you
> crazy for your (admittedly pretty odd to me) beliefs, but
> then again I had
> an argument with a loved one last week about whether fairies and elves
> exist (I was firmly against, for the record), so I am
> probably deadened by
> long exposure to the bulk of the effect of weird ideas.
Consider the fact that in Ireland before the industrial revolution, Fairies
were commonly seen -not by everyone, but most everyone believed in spirits
in the forest, and knew someone who had seen one. As people became educated,
at the beginning of the Industrial revolution, the sightings dropped of to
an extremely rare occurrence. Education to the reality of the world and
science, made it impossible to believe in Fairies, without being called
insane. Does this mean that before people were educated, they were somehow
mentally ill, and that education made them sane?
I would suggest that the power of Mythos creates these things (sightings).
As science has had its affect on the world at large, UFO's have replaces
fairy sightings. It is more plausible to believe that extraterrestrial UFO's
exist than magical fairies. Does this make these sighting any less real.
Considering that millions of people have publicly announced witnessing some
sort of UFO, science must not be blind to it - there is some logical process
happening to cause so many people to see strange things. Before dismissing
the rantings of common folk believing in fairies as insanity, consider that
you may be ignorant to the causality of sightings.
> However, I tend to
> not take arguments based on those kinds of ideas very seriously.
>
> As for the historical validity of that claim, well, yeah Homo
> Sapiens have
> been around for about that long afaik (and I just looked it
> up the other
> week); certainly the whole notion of "progress" as we tend to
> present it in
> our society is a romanticization of the way technological development
> occurs in the real world, in fits and starts and backpedals
> and so on. I
> read somewhere that someone dug up some kind of battery from
> the bronze age
> which was probably used to treating bronze, for example, but
> we consider
> Ben Franklin with his kite and a key in the middle of the
> string as our
> popculture symbol for the discovering of harnessable
> electricity (right?).
>
> But a lot of the arguments that people make about the future
> can be applied
> to the past. For example, it's been pointed out that if we
> had some kind of
> massive disaster, whether ecological or military or whatever,
> that we'd
> have a hell of a time mounting another industrial revolution
> because all of
> the easily accessible fossil fuels and lots of materials are
> now mined out,
> and mostly deeper stuff remains. If that's so, then the
> presence of more
> shallow deposits at the beginning of our own Industrial
> Revolution all over
> the planet suggests that it was the first one on the planet,
> regardless of
> whatever other land was above the surface (as you claim -- I
> know nothing
> about that claim). Right? And I assume these ancient people
> would have had
> to start their Industrial Revolution from scratch too, and to
> get to Mars,
> would have had a significantly advanced technology, which
> suggests a very
> widespread use of resources, which means they would have
> sucked lots of the
> bauxite out of Africa and the oil out of Texas before we ever
> existed. :)
You assumption seem valid to me. I would suggest that the only circumstances
where we could have visited Mars, would have been from acts of Uplifting by
you know who (and I don't mean God).
>
> As for archeologists "explaining" away anomalies, well,
> sometimes people
> create anomalies out of simple facts that archeologists can
> explain easily;
> but when one has faith invested that the past is different from what
> archeologists will "admit", one sees "anomalies" everywhere
> (witness von
> Daniken as an example). I won't say archeologists have a
> complete picture
> or aren't flawed and human, but I'm more disposed to listen
> to a person
> whose job is looking at the past for greater understanding of
> the past, as
> opposed to someone whose purpose is to look for evidence of
> something that
> they want to have existed.
>
> As for the Face on Mars, I find it an entertaining myth. You
> might be right
> and I might be wrong, but I think if the cat were really out
> of the bag,
> people would just own up to it. I only ever have seen the pic
> on the cover
> of Weekly World News and in the X-Files. Till I see it
> anywhere else, I
> remain highly skeptical. And again talk of the face on Mars
> is unlikely to
> convince anyone that your idea about why we should go there
> is a valid one.
> Maybe that's bigoted, but it's still true. *shrug*
Check out
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images/4_6_face_release/index.html
Nasa went back to the same site to take pictures to answer the question. If
you did believe in the Face, you will feel stupid after seeing this site
(Unless you believe in NASA conspiracies).
There is no face on Mars, there are no canals, these are not the 'droids
your are looking for...
It is my belief that the same thing that drives us to make babies, is what
drives us to go to Mars. There is no explaining it -the Universe has
hard-wired it into us. I don't think we need a reason. Someday, someone will
be driven enough to make it to Mars, to satisfy this "cosmic" urge. Perhaps
one may not feel the urge as strongly as in others, but be patient, Mother
Nature is working on that!
Nerd From Hell
>
> Gord
>
>
>
