At 04:29 PM 1/29/01 -0500, K. Feete wrote:
>I admit the below the poverty line thing is decieving. It's true that my
>parents' net income is very very low, but since we grow most of our own
>food we get along comfortably, if a little skimpily around Christmas and
>so on.
True. But given the way certain families live in places like The
Philippines, El Salvador, and Congo - I have a really hard time of thinking
of almost any family in America as "in poverty."
>>Rather, Kat your occupation is an anachronistic and inefficient process
>>that results in a byproduct of a marginal amount of surplus food. If the
>>amount of food produced by your farm (as I seem to recall it) disappeared
>>from the world market, the supply and price of food would be completely
>>unaffected. Therfore, the marginal value of your production is of very low
>>value, compared to larger and more efficient farms. Virtually all of the
>>food that I eat almost certainly comes from large and efficient farms that
>>produce large quantities of food very cheaply. Most farmers that run
>>these farms are actually fairly well off.
>
>I'm going to assume that this paragraph was *not* meant as a personal
>insult, and reply accordingly. But, in the future, please do try to avoid
>telling me my way of life is worthless.
As I think I mentioned elsewhere (I forget, its been a while) - your way of
life is not *worthless.* Clearly as long as people are paying you for
your outputs, it has some worth. I just take exception to the fact that
you sometimes tend to view your family as "martyrs." Here, as well as
elsewhere, you note that your family is "poor" and isn't it so terribly
wrong that your family is poor, because you are just one of a handful of
people that produce safe, quality, environmentally-friendly food..... if
only the rest of the world saw how truly valuable your family was, then
your family would finally be rich.
O.k., so yes, the above paragraph sounded insulting. But have you
considered for a moment just how phenomenonly arrogant you come across as
sounding? (and that is even without considering your previous comment
that *my* views make you ashamed to be an American.) America is the
freeist and richest society this world has ever seen. You, however,
consistently reject almost every aspect of American society, wether it is
our free markets, our political system, or our student culture, you can't
ever seem to find a shred of goodness or optimism in American life. As
such, you've consistently tried to set yourself apart from the rest of
America, because your school, your job, and your way of life is *better*
than the rest of us - and yet you wonder why you end up so much poorer than
the rest of us.
This is not to say that America is perfect - in fact, I probably criticize
America as much as anyone else on this list. Yet, I think that America is
fundamentally good at heart, and I have tremendous optimism for our future
the future of our country. You, on the other hand, strike me as
fundamentally misanthropic.
If you'd like to earn money, Kat - try producing something that more people
want. In every successful economic system in the history of human kind,
people have not been paid based on what he or she thinks him or herself to
be worth - but has instead based on what other people think he or she is
worth. I am sure that the food your family produce is wonderful and all
that - but it clearly is not *that* much more wonderful than competiting
produce to justify the prices that would give your family the income it
thinks it deserves. So, why not quit the farm and go out and earn money
doing something else? Maybe go out and get a PhD in agriculture
research, become a professor, and use your money to support other organic
and environmentally friendly farmers, researchers, and activist groups?
That's only one example, but I'm sure there are many others. Do something
- but please don't just choose to enter an occupation that society does not
value highly at the moment (due in large part to a surplus of suppliers)
and then complain about how unfair your lot is.
>You eat food from those large farms, I eat food from my small one: care
>to compare doctor's visits and number of tooth fillings, John? Not to
>mention the degree to which I actually *enjoy* my food.
Oh, I *enjoy* my food..... my waistline is testament to that. ;-) I've
actually had exactly *one* cavity, two years ago, and I've been pretty
bummed about that. This is actually pretty remarkable because I still
have something like 8 of baby teeth left in. Doctor's visits is another
story, but I have allergies, asthma, and a spinal problem that are all
congenital in nature.
>I also find your phrase "large and efficient" very interesting. No
>offense here, but what in the *hell* makes you think a large farm is more
>efficient than a small one?
Umm..... the fact that the large farm can provide lots of food that
undercuts your farm in price?
Also, the fact that no large farm has ever been run out of business by a
much more efficient small farm?
Owners
>of farms such as you describe are undoubtably quite well off, in part
>because of the low wages they pay the people who do the actual
>harvesting, milking, or what have you, which brings me back to my
>original point: contrary to what you seem to believe, low wage workers
>are *not* producers of low value (read: insignificant) products and
>nothing but. They produce everything you couldn't live without.
They are low value, not because food is essential - they are low value
because they can be easily replaced. If a Mexican immigrant harvester
decides to quit, they are plenty of others where he came from to replace
him. If all of the poor stopped working as harvesters, then they could be
replaced by laid off manufacturers, all the way up to even PhD's and MD's
in a pinch, if it came right down to a matter of survival. That's low value.
JDG
__________________________________________________________
John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ICQ #3527685
"The point of living in a Republic after all, is that we do not live by
majority rule. We live by laws and a variety of isntitutions designed
to check each other." -Andrew Sullivan 01/29/01
