"John D. Giorgis" wrote:
> At 11:21 PM 5/26/01 -0700 Christopher Gwyn wrote:
>>> Each soldier that went to war gave their life.
>> Suggesting a 100% mortality rate? That is how most - if not all -
>> people would hear that statement.
> NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes, yes, yes. if you walk down the street asking people what they
think when you refer to soldiers who "gave their life" i am quite
confident that you will get nearly a 100% response that 'oh, you mean
they died'.
> Look above, will ya! I already noted that a great many of the people who
> gave their lives *GOT THEIR LIVES BACK*!!!!!!!
> And in case you missed it above, I wrote it again, very next thing!
fine, but you're saying it twice, or even three times, does not
change how the great majority of people perceive that phrasing.
> VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
???
> Let me be even clearer. Given that you agree with first statement quoted
> above, it would be appropriate to commend "All those who gave their lives
> for their country, and didn't get it back."
> Because this is a mouthful, however, it is convenient to shorten this
> statement. Since the second clause of my sentence two lines above almost
> necessarily follows from the first clause, as a matter of convenienve we
> commend "All those who gave their lives for their country."
no matter what clever phrasing you propose changes the fact that
when people refer to "those who gave their lives for their country."
they are talking about dead people and not talking about live people.
the term that people use for living ex-soldiers is 'they served their
country', not 'they gave their lives to their country'.
> In this manner, the last quote is taken by all listeners to apply solely
> and totally to all soldiers who gave their lives during a tour of duty.
i.e. people who died. do you have any suggestion as to why people
use a phrasing that implies suicidal tendencies when none were
present?
> More to the point, this discussion started when I commended "All those who
> gave their lives for their country." Jeroen and yourself disagreed with
> this formulation is inaccurately reflecting the status of our war dead.
correct.
> Nevertheless, if you agree that all *living* veterans gave their lives, and
> then received them back (upon discharge), THEN it follows that all those
> who died gave their lives, and did not receive them back.
if you insist upon obsessing over that phrasing then in order to
divert you back to the topic i retract my agreement.
{snip}
> The commendation is therefore accurate.
it is fine that you feel that way, however it is totally irrelevant
to the question. the question again is why people use a phrasing that
suggests the soldier (or fireman, policeman, etc.) _made a decision
to die_ when the facts of the case do not support that hypothesis. do
you have any thoughts as to why that is the case, without making up
out of whole cloth a nonexistent extension of the phrasing to living
people?
regards,
christopher
--
Christopher Gwyn
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
