On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Charlie Bell wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Charlie Bell wrote:
> > > > At 09:29 PM 6/20/01 +0200 J. van Baardwijk wrote:
> > > Have you not noticed that there are flaming response to posts
> > in which JDG
> > > and Gayutam sing the praises of the US, because you're both so
> > sickeningly
> > > self-righteous?
> >
> > > I only wish you were able to comprehend how much of the so-called
> > > anti-americanism is nothing more than a reaction to your sheer
> > buffoonery.
> > >
> > > Charlie.
> >
> > Yes Charlie, you _really_ make your point when you personally insult both
> > John and me - and I wasn't even involved in this thread. Good work.
> > You've _absolutely_ convinced me that you are a completely calm and
> > rational debater on this topic.
> Sarcasm? <blink>
>
> The first was aimed at you, and it's not to do with just this thread. The
> second wasn't, it was aimed squarely at Mr Giorgis.
>
> However, your posting style and your attitude has been extremely offputting
> to me.
Well, I'm sorry. I don't particularly intend to change, but I'm sorry you
feel that way.
> Calm and rational debate went out the window in Brin-L when it changed into
> a place for soap-box patriots to decry any criticism of the States as
> anti-americanism, and for the "conservatives" to denounce everyone else as
> ignorant fools.
Really? Here's what it look slike from my perspective. Someone - one of
the usual suspects, one might say - will say something about the United
States that would never, ever be said about any other country. Sometimes
somone - John or me usually, but not always - will object to this. We
will then promptly be assailed for self-righteousness or turning it into a
debating society or what not. To be blunt, Charlie, I, like John, and, I
know from off-list communications, other people who have been driven off
the list (or at least whom I haven't seen posting in a very long time)
feel that there's a huge double standard. Anyone can say _anything_
negative about a conservative or the US and it's all in the bounds of fair
play to you. Anyone who says anything positive about the US in response
is boasting, arrogant, or whatnot. Now, I don't carry my arguments as far
as John does, but I don't think _he_ carries them nearly as far as many
other people on the list freely do. Now if, the next time someone says
something ludicrously anti-American, you were to say - that's not fair, or
something along those lines, I would change my mind. I'm always open to
doing that. But I've rarely, if ever, seen you or most of the other
people on the list do that. That sort of attitude is infuriating enough
to me that I've considered leaving the list many times - but don't largely
because heck, I live in Cambridge, I have to deal with that sort of thing
all the time, so what's a little bit more? But even there people are at
least polite enough not to call the people they disagree with buffoons.
Gautam
